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Kati Blom discusses the understanding of the phenomenological space, sensorium between the body and the mind, with the notion of negative affordance by perception psychologist James J. Gibson.

Image courtesy of interviewee. May 9, 2024

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This video video discusses the theme of perception in relation to architecture and city life, emphasizing the importance of understanding how individuals perceive their environment through both ecological and phenomenological lenses. The speaker references the work of two key figures: James Gibson, who introduced the concept of "affordance," describing how our perception of objects is influenced by our intentions and physical interactions with our surroundings, and Gaston Bachelard, known for his exploration of the "poetics of space" which emphasizes the personal and emotional significance of spaces.

The speaker asserts that our perception is not merely a passive reception of stimuli but an active, bodily engagement with the environment, where negative affordances (such as danger) can trigger consciousness and awareness. This video video leads to a discussion of how architecture affects our experiences, particularly in urban environments where overwhelming sensory information can create a disconnection between individuals and their surroundings.

The nuances of perception are further illustrated through examples, like the experience of a lemon, which highlights the difference between scientific descriptions of objects and the subjective, relational significance they hold for individuals.

Finally, the speaker calls for architects to consider the complexities of modern urban life and the potential for communal engagement within city structures, while also acknowledging the negative experiences brought by urban living. The importance of integrating poetic and phenomenological insights into architectural design is emphasized, advocating for a deeper understanding of how spaces affect human experience and interaction.

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Here are some similar articles that you might find engaging based on the themes and concepts discussed in your video:

1. **"The Phenomenology of Urban Life: Exploring Our Relationship with the City"**
This article examines how our lived experiences in urban environments shape our perceptions and interactions within city spaces, drawing on phenomenological theories.

2. **"Affordances in Architecture: Understanding Interaction and Experience"**
Focusing on James Gibson’s concept of affordance, this piece discusses how design influences user behavior and perception in architectural convideos.

3. **"The Poetics of Space: Emotional Connections to Our Surroundings"**
This article delves into Gaston Bachelard's explorations of how personal memories and emotions are tied to the spaces we inhabit, affecting our perceptions and experiences.

4. **"Designing for Perception: The Role of Sensory Experience in Architecture"**
A discussion about how architects can design spaces that enhance sensory engagement, considering both positive and negative affordances in urban settings.

5. **"Urban Disconnection: The Challenge of Designing Meaningful City Spaces"**
This article addresses the issues of sensory overload in urban areas and proposes architectural solutions that promote meaningful interactions among city dwellers.

6. **"The Intersection of Architecture and Psychology: Understanding Human Responses to Space"**
Here, the relationship between architectural design and psychological impact on perception is explored, providing insight into how environments influence human behavior and emotions.

7. **"Engaging with the Urban Fabric: Community and Architecture"**
This article emphasizes the importance of community engagement in urban design, highlighting how spaces can foster or hinder social interaction and perception.

These articles complement the discussion on perception, architecture, and urban life, providing further insight into how environments shape human experiences and interactions.

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

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Interested in the perception

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and especially perception in environmental,

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fields, specifically architecture,

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because I'm an architect, so, all the time,

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when I'm writing something, I go back to the perception.

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So there are two, two, scientific people

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or, scholars, which I'm interested specifically, in,

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when I'm thinking about the city and, the city life.

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One is, James Gisa, who is an American,

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perceptionist psychologist, if I would call it,

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who in fifties studied, deeply the perception

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of, vision, or vision as a perception he calls is,

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the ecological approach to visual perception.

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And he realized that we don't see objects as such in a void,

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in a space which is empty,

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but we are approaching them from our intention

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and as a moving object and,

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or moving subject, if you like.

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And the environment is sort full of services,

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which we read very carefully.

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We know exactly,

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what those things which are approaching or

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or distancing themselves from us are,

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whether they are eatable, whether they are stiff,

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whether they are smooth, whether they're living

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or whether they're furry and so on.

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So our perception of surfaces is extremely, clear

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and extremely complicated.

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And, and, and this body, the of ours,

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which is the source of the perception

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or perceives,

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is doing these things automatically

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without our consciousness.

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So Gibson, is looking at the perception

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as a bodily activity, maybe not brain activity,

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but an activity which is about our actions in the world.

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That's why he calls his ecological approach.

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So things appear in relation to us, either are favorable

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to us or neutral, or even negative.

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So what, what he, created then is this new word,

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which has become quite a big thing in design industry,

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which is called affordance.

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So the life around us, or the earth or the globe universe,

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or to say, allows

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or offers us things which we as a animal species find,

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capable of appropriating.

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Um, and we automatically see that we can sit in a place

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or we can handle it, or we can climb up

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or we can eat it.

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So this is positive affordance, if you like. It's

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An, an what, what life affords offers us.

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Uh, name is affordance.

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Uh, then he also realized that there are some instances

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where our consciousness comes into the picture.

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And these are so-called negative affordances.

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So for instance, I'm moving around a cliff in a mountain,

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and I hold because I'm afraid of, dropping down.

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So our body alerts us in these instances that say,

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I want to go forward,

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but I suddenly see a wall in front of me and I stop.

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This is also relational.

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So the wall doesn't, project itself to us as negative

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as he calls, preventer over action.

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Uh, unless we are wanting to do one, something,

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unless we want to enter a, a building or

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unless we want, to continue our walk over the cliff.

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Uh, normally we don't care.

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We don't go close to the cliff,

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but the body says, this is extremely,

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dangerous situation we have to hold,

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and the consciousness, alerts us.

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So I find this extremely interesting

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because at, at first, it's a body, reacting

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to the environment in this specific ways.

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We are naturally gliding into the

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environment, without thinking.

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But in some instances, we are halted, we are afraid.

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We, we stop, we have to consider what's going on.

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So this negative awareness is something I've been used in

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relation to city and to the vertical verticality

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of the mega structures.

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Um, so, it is, again, it is something to do

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with our actions.

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Its relation to, to what we intend to do.

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Uh, then, the other person

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or other philosopher, if you like, which I'm interested is,

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guin b la he hasn't been,

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translated, until lately,

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but there's one book of his which have been greatly going

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around the world for artists

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and architects, which is the poetics of space.

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And, I read it,

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when it was translated to finish.

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Uh, and I have read another version

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of it when it's translated into English.

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Um, and there's something very fascinating about this book.

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His way of writing about it,

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opens up new associations immediately.

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So it's, it's very provocative, if you like the,

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they, he is the one who died 62.

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He's one of the French continental philosophers

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who is interested in phenomenonology.

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So the, the way we are in the world, in world of perception.

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And he has written, many,

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many books about elements like air, water,

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fire, and so on.

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Um, but

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before that, he, was a scientist

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or philosophy of science,

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especially interested in epistemology.

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So how we know things, what we know,

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what's going on in the scientific world.

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And he was the one who appeared to have

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understood that scientific knowledge is not evolution,

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which is gradual, giving us more and more information.

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It's in, in fact, erupted.

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So there are these disruptions of,

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or breaks in epistemological disciplines.

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So suddenly, the whole world of,

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let's say chemistry changes or physics changes.

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So we have this new concept

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and new structures of knowledge, which then appear,

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and we are applying them to our, our scientific

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actions or whatever.

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And, because he understood then early on

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that this is relational, it's something to do

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with us wanting to know something,

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and then new discipline appears, and then the all goes.

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Um, and how do we know

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that the concept we are using are truth to the reality?

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And, of course, phenomenologists who, cell

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and others have been already talking about that.

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Uh, looking, the only way we can see the reality,

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is to go back to the perception.

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So this is what we know through our body

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and through our senses.

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And the perception gives, maybe,

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like a, a trigger.

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It triggers us, something,

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which is then the conceptual thinking.

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We are naming things, we are looking at things

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and trying to understand the structure of the world.

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Um, and, so things appear phenomenon, phenomenal

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of phenomenon are to us.

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And it's worthwhile looking at the perception

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because it gives deeper understanding how the conceptual,

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abstract world is constructed and how we use the concept

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and for what purposes.

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And when these, items become redundant,

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when we are not anymore using them,

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they are not anymore usable.

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Uh, so one example is

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that we don't use anymore the religious vocabulary so much

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because it doesn't make sense anymore.

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'cause we are interested in other things,

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not spiritual things.

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So this perception is of course, immediately,

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what I could call, difficult to understand

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because perception is not always stable.

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Um, and this unstable nature of it,

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is fascinating.

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Um, so the perception

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or the experience is unique each time.

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Uh, the instant of the movement,

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is what fascinates.

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Uh, so what happens in the instant, we see something,

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which we haven't seen ever feed before.

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So one example, which I have here is,

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is the, lemon.

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So we say, in scientific, view of this lemon, it's,

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it's, rough surface.

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It's a little bit, dusty or

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or watery or whatever.

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And it has a yellow color.

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These are concepts which are based on scientific knowledge

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about the qualities, and,

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and, attributes of this specific,

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lemon.

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But it doesn't interest,

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his interest is in the significance

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or authenticity of this particular lemon

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and the way it's formed.

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Uh, so it's not analyzing them from the formal points

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of view, but analyzing it's from the, from

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what it is as a whole.

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So the lemon has color of lemon only

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because it's a lemon.

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It can be taken away from it.

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It doesn't tell anything specific about this lemon except

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that, there are other things which are,

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have the same color, but this specific lemon is individual

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and me perceiving it and thinking about eating it.

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Uh, I have a specific intention

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to understand it in a how do I open it?

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And, and is it, is it raw

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or, is it ready to be, eaten?

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So he then, constructs this idea of

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material imagination, which is relational

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to our being in the world, our situation.

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I'm only interested in lemon if I really like citrus,

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and I would like to put it in into my water.

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Um, but also I would like to put it in my table

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to watch the beauty of it.

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Uh, so I'm deeply interested in it,

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in the way it's in my hand,

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in the way I can feel its goal in my chic and so on.

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So the formal imagination is, is created,

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using the words like color, shape,

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taste, I don't know, scent and so on.

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So it's analytically looking at the concept abstract.

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Uh, this formal imagination

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for basal is not redundant as such.

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Uh, it's only the, the formal imagination is

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taking account.

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The concept we are using

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and phenomenological study is,

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then looking at the deeper, whether these qualifications

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or these abstracts

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or concepts are valid in the experience of this,

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lemon or this specific authentic situation,

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momentary understanding of things.

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Um, and the poet poetry,

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he was interested in poet or so literature.

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Um, and it is why the, the why, why it is the question.

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Um, and I think it's

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because the concepts, the words, so pastor

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and philosophers in general are interested in concepts.

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They're looking closer into the concepts, whether

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what they give, what associations they have, are they

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not usable or usable, and is co poetry.

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And poetic language in general is a matter of words.

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So the materiality

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and the material imagination arise from understanding

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of the words, and it's opens up a new world.

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If we look at word,

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and the meaning of it in, in isolation, we are not

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so concerned about it.

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But if we put two things to two words,

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which don't belong together, normally we are

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approaching a new world.

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So the poetic, poetic, imagination

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or poetic language in general is associative.

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And that's of course something which,

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I realized later that Parla has been interested in

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psychoanalysis and psychoanalysis.

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It is a talking of therapy.

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So it, it's, trying to understand the, the language

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in its associative creative, emerging,

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situation where we see things are new

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through the language.

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And, but I haven't read so much that I, I would know

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how this plaque canalicular approach,

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situates in in her theory, in his theory.

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Um, so,

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material imagination is instant

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momentary temporal situation, related.

14:36.465 --> 14:41.245
Um, yeah. So, it has been quite interesting

14:41.245 --> 14:45.445
because architects have been interested in this, word,

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quite much lately.

14:48.305 --> 14:51.055
There are many implications for architects.

14:51.445 --> 14:53.805
When I read, bachelor for the first time,

14:53.805 --> 14:55.765
there was this book, which is called The World

14:55.825 --> 15:00.045
of Perception, which is based on his lectures, in,

15:00.545 --> 15:05.125
France Broadcasting Company, and it's quite clear book.

15:05.665 --> 15:10.005
And in one point, he talks about, proximity

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to things in perception,

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and he calls them tic, so causing vertigo.

15:18.105 --> 15:22.165
And when I read that, I have scenes kept

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that in mind quite often

15:24.035 --> 15:28.125
because it, it's quite, amazing,

15:28.125 --> 15:29.925
observation about perception.

15:30.585 --> 15:34.965
So, the thing is that he, in a material imagination,

15:35.065 --> 15:37.885
you are not supposed to look at things,

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from the perceived or priest perceived point,

15:41.985 --> 15:45.525
or for, from the world war, which you knew already.

15:45.745 --> 15:47.725
You're supposed to look at it as new.

15:48.745 --> 15:52.685
And, and in the other book of his, which is, the,

15:52.745 --> 15:55.965
phenomenonology of perception,

15:56.155 --> 15:57.205
it's quite a big book.

15:57.425 --> 16:01.685
He also talks in one chapter, which is about space,

16:01.685 --> 16:03.885
about perception of space,

16:04.665 --> 16:08.845
and especially, there is one chap, one paragraph

16:08.865 --> 16:12.765
or few pages where he talks about, depth.

16:13.785 --> 16:18.445
So the space, the space doesn't exist as a thing at all.

16:18.945 --> 16:23.445
So when we talk about space, it is not

16:24.195 --> 16:28.005
aian space, which is a void where things, appear,

16:28.865 --> 16:30.405
object, next to another.

16:31.025 --> 16:35.485
No, it is again, something which is related to us

16:35.545 --> 16:36.605
and our perception.

16:36.985 --> 16:40.525
So the world is holding us as we are holding the world.

16:40.905 --> 16:43.845
So in phenomenological thinking, the subject

16:44.145 --> 16:46.685
and the object are merging.

16:47.545 --> 16:50.805
And depending what we want, similar to Gibson,

16:51.305 --> 16:55.405
the distance is far or, or too far or close.

16:56.065 --> 16:58.605
So it is relational to ourselves.

16:59.305 --> 17:00.925
And when we realize that

17:01.515 --> 17:05.005
it's quite a radical change into our worldview,

17:05.005 --> 17:09.725
because then everything is somehow vague or oblique

17:09.905 --> 17:11.605
or not clear.

17:12.465 --> 17:16.925
Uh, I have one, one, like an example of it.

17:17.045 --> 17:19.325
I call it a morning shimmer.

17:20.065 --> 17:24.125
Uh, when I was younger, I woke up, early morning,

17:24.945 --> 17:28.845
many times, and I couldn't understand where I was.

17:29.175 --> 17:33.205
There was this morning, twilight, quite diffused light,

17:33.585 --> 17:36.245
and things were there, but there were pulsating,

17:37.465 --> 17:39.245
and I didn't know what they were.

17:39.555 --> 17:44.485
They were like, like an energized things, which I wanted

17:44.485 --> 17:47.965
to know what they are, like an alien,

17:47.985 --> 17:49.045
coming to the world.

17:49.585 --> 17:51.845
And, like, proximity

17:52.225 --> 17:56.365
or their distance, was, was changing all the time.

17:56.625 --> 18:00.205
Oliver Sachs talks about this in his books quite a lot.

18:00.265 --> 18:05.125
So people, people are experiencing, anomalies,

18:05.425 --> 18:09.445
in the perception only after when we find minutes

18:09.505 --> 18:11.845
or something, I realize that's a drawer,

18:12.275 --> 18:15.045
it's not a living thing, or that's a painting.

18:15.475 --> 18:17.965
It's not a, animated object.

18:18.585 --> 18:23.165
So this kind of a pre perceive, world is suddenly,

18:24.105 --> 18:26.805
disappeared and a chaos exists.

18:27.225 --> 18:30.085
So this chaos of things which are not named yet

18:30.745 --> 18:31.805
is the vertigo.

18:32.155 --> 18:36.565
It's, it's us understanding that the things which were named

18:36.665 --> 18:38.765
by power parents or our culture

18:39.225 --> 18:42.045
or our language don't exist anymore.

18:42.545 --> 18:45.805
We are in the primorial situation where things are just

18:45.835 --> 18:49.925
what they are, and they affect us, not so that we see,

18:49.945 --> 18:53.285
that's a table only, or that's a painting only.

18:53.945 --> 18:58.885
Um, and this, sort of teaching us, or, confusion

18:59.025 --> 19:02.045
or perception, or is something I'm really interested in

19:02.155 --> 19:05.485
because it gives a birth to ideas about

19:05.865 --> 19:09.925
how do we see the modern world, where the perception is

19:10.615 --> 19:12.885
overloaded by central information.

19:13.465 --> 19:15.445
And we don't know exactly what's going on.

19:15.745 --> 19:20.245
Uh, possibly our body is alerted like in a Ian way.

19:20.745 --> 19:22.205
So there's something going on,

19:22.205 --> 19:24.765
which we can't really say what it is.

19:25.465 --> 19:28.405
Our body is, tense all the time.

19:29.185 --> 19:33.285
Uh, it's, like, Basler talks about poetic images,

19:33.335 --> 19:36.975
which are cozy, so pleasurable.

19:37.355 --> 19:40.855
We glide into coziness of the world.

19:41.285 --> 19:44.055
When we are in nature, for instance, we have just

19:45.175 --> 19:47.055
perceive it and we naturally live there.

19:47.475 --> 19:51.215
But when we are in the city, we are somehow bombarded

19:51.645 --> 19:53.655
with things which we don't what they are.

19:54.035 --> 19:58.175
So the linguistic, explanation comes into the picture.

19:58.795 --> 20:02.375
We are thinking about the meaning of this, what's going on,

20:02.875 --> 20:07.695
why this surface is so huge, why it is so immense.

20:07.935 --> 20:09.495
I can't fit myself into this.

20:10.095 --> 20:12.295
I can't fit myself into this war.

20:12.395 --> 20:16.695
Uh, sounds, noise, the pollution,

20:17.185 --> 20:18.895
everything is overwhelming.

20:19.035 --> 20:20.095
So I'm in an element.

20:20.875 --> 20:25.455
And, interestingly, he, talks about,

20:25.635 --> 20:29.775
the modern life and, the struggle of modern life

20:30.115 --> 20:34.775
as well, talking about this noise of the city life where

20:35.515 --> 20:39.135
we are suddenly so bombarded with this noise,

20:39.135 --> 20:40.935
which disturbs us in the night,

20:41.635 --> 20:46.455
and we suddenly think of the ocean or the element of water,

20:47.305 --> 20:51.085
Uh, because lar is interested in elements like air,

20:51.585 --> 20:54.605
higher earth, water.

20:55.305 --> 20:59.805
And he thinks that city life is like an ocean city.

21:00.065 --> 21:02.605
So it's an element we live in, not

21:02.605 --> 21:06.805
that there's one individual object we can identify as ours,

21:07.475 --> 21:11.925
it's just, we are submerged into it, like in a water.

21:12.705 --> 21:14.845
Um, and,

21:15.725 --> 21:20.125
normally we think Ard is not talking about the struggle of,

21:20.265 --> 21:21.365
modern life,

21:21.365 --> 21:25.845
but he's actually talking quite substantially about it.

21:26.665 --> 21:28.605
Uh, so there,

21:30.805 --> 21:35.705
the protection from the overloading, overloaded,

21:35.705 --> 21:39.065
sensory information is, to,

21:39.375 --> 21:42.985
retreat into language, trying to understand the meaning.

21:43.645 --> 21:47.625
One thing which, which I've been thinking a lot is

21:47.625 --> 21:51.265
that, because this poetic, of space

21:51.805 --> 21:54.865
and martial art in general has been so inspirational

21:54.925 --> 21:58.665
to architects, the material, materially imagination,

21:59.165 --> 22:01.865
for instance, is a well, well-known phrase now.

22:02.005 --> 22:03.665
And, and people talk about it.

22:04.365 --> 22:08.465
Um, there is a conflict which architects, see,

22:08.525 --> 22:11.785
or I see myself that, phenomenon

22:12.815 --> 22:15.825
talk much about the atmosphere, the sort

22:15.825 --> 22:20.065
of pleasurable things of nature, preferable things of house

22:21.215 --> 22:24.825
preservable, things of things which we glide in easily,

22:25.455 --> 22:28.185
like nukes or house or attics or whatever.

22:29.045 --> 22:34.025
Uh, and we are at the same time, applied

22:34.565 --> 22:35.905
to create

22:36.165 --> 22:40.185
and design huge buildings in the city centers.

22:41.005 --> 22:44.945
Um, and we don't have any advice how to go about it.

22:45.805 --> 22:48.865
Um, so it's like, those

22:49.005 --> 22:52.785
who make these high tech buildings in the city are little,

22:52.885 --> 22:55.025
but like, you know,

22:57.165 --> 23:00.505
the poor things who do that, your architects

23:00.505 --> 23:01.945
who are only do that,

23:02.045 --> 23:03.865
but not,

23:04.265 --> 23:07.065
provoke any pleasurable environments for users.

23:07.805 --> 23:10.785
And of course, that is part of the question about that.

23:10.805 --> 23:11.865
Who is the developer?

23:11.865 --> 23:15.465
Who, what are they doing when they think about these

23:15.495 --> 23:18.065
huge mega structures in the city centers?

23:18.765 --> 23:22.145
Uh, their users are not, their main interest,

23:22.315 --> 23:25.385
their profit is the main interest anyways.

23:25.685 --> 23:30.025
Um, there is also some, how could I say,

23:31.725 --> 23:36.305
poetic possibilities in the city, if you like the city,

23:36.405 --> 23:40.465
as an ocean city, the city as a, as

23:41.185 --> 23:44.105
a huge potential of communication

23:44.605 --> 23:47.205
and, encounters with other people.

23:47.965 --> 23:50.165
'cause that's why we peeled it in the first place.

23:50.865 --> 23:53.805
Um, so,

23:54.305 --> 23:58.205
so the potential I see in the cities, or mega structures

23:58.345 --> 24:02.645
or metropol is of course, the potential

24:02.645 --> 24:06.085
of the communal life and communication with each other.

24:06.945 --> 24:11.285
Uh, but at the same time, the city life is,

24:12.265 --> 24:14.605
is, we suffer in city life.

24:14.705 --> 24:16.685
The body is suffering,

24:16.745 --> 24:19.685
and we want to retreat from there at the same time.

24:20.905 --> 24:25.725
Uh, so, I'm really

24:26.815 --> 24:30.925
interested in studying negative experiences

24:31.785 --> 24:36.125
or experiences which are not normal, where we have to halt,

24:36.265 --> 24:39.565
we have to stop, we have to think,

24:39.565 --> 24:42.245
because in those moments, we are really seeing

24:42.665 --> 24:46.005
how the party reacts to, obstacles

24:46.585 --> 24:50.645
or, preventers in the environment like

24:50.865 --> 24:51.885
Gibson says.

24:52.545 --> 24:54.645
And then it means that, for instance,

24:54.645 --> 24:58.885
reflective surface in the city must be avoided.

24:59.035 --> 25:03.565
There's some sort of a sinister, like an excess

25:03.625 --> 25:05.365
of glass and steel structures,

25:05.365 --> 25:08.485
which I've been talking earlier, in my career.

25:09.105 --> 25:12.285
Um, birds don't like glass.

25:13.025 --> 25:14.245
Uh, we don't like glass.

25:14.265 --> 25:16.845
We have to really think, closely.

25:17.425 --> 25:19.885
Is it, is the glass wall

25:19.985 --> 25:23.085
or glass door, accessible or not?

25:23.425 --> 25:25.965
So it's alerting us all the time.

25:26.465 --> 25:31.365
So some, some, circumstances of environment.

25:31.365 --> 25:35.165
Some, some situations can be avoided

25:35.705 --> 25:38.925
if we know what they, how they affect us,

25:39.305 --> 25:42.165
and how the experience is negative rather than a positive.

25:42.985 --> 25:45.525
Um, so for me, phenomenologies

25:45.745 --> 25:49.805
or architects should invest in, poets

25:49.805 --> 25:51.525
of modern life or city life.

25:51.905 --> 25:53.245
Not only the poets

25:53.245 --> 25:56.365
of small little houses in the countryside,

25:56.865 --> 26:01.325
or a retreat into the traditional way of, of building,

26:01.335 --> 26:03.485
which is of course, natural thing to do,

26:04.265 --> 26:06.205
the traditional craft and so on.

26:06.585 --> 26:07.725
But there is a void

26:08.185 --> 26:12.405
and we, we can't avoid, not to think about the void.

26:13.105 --> 26:14.765
Um, theoretically

26:14.905 --> 26:17.445
and aesthetically very important questions.

00:00 - Interested in the perception and especially perception in environmental, fields, specifically architecture, because I'm an architect, so, all the time, when I'm writing something, I go back to the perception. So there are two, two, scientific people

00:22 - or, scholars, which I'm interested specifically, in, when I'm thinking about the city and, the city life. One is, James Gisa, who is an American, perceptionist psychologist, if I would call it, who in fifties studied, deeply the perception of, vision, or vision as a perception he calls is, the ecological approach to visual perception. And he realized that we don't see objects as such in a void, in a space which is empty, but we are approaching them from our intention

01:04 - and as a moving object and, or moving subject, if you like. And the environment is sort full of services, which we read very carefully. We know exactly, what those things which are approaching or or distancing themselves from us are, whether they are eatable, whether they are stiff, whether they are smooth, whether they're living or whether they're furry and so on.

01:34 - So our perception of surfaces is extremely, clear and extremely complicated. And, and, and this body, the of ours, which is the source of the perception or perceives, is doing these things automatically without our consciousness. So Gibson, is looking at the perception as a bodily activity, maybe not brain activity, but an activity which is about our actions in the world.

02:06 - That's why he calls his ecological approach. So things appear in relation to us, either are favorable to us or neutral, or even negative. So what, what he, created then is this new word, which has become quite a big thing in design industry, which is called affordance. So the life around us, or the earth or the globe universe, or to say, allows or offers us things which we as a animal species find, capable of appropriating.

02:44 - and we automatically see that we can sit in a place or we can handle it, or we can climb up or we can eat it. So this is positive affordance, if you like. It's An, an what, what life affords offers us. name is affordance. then he also realized that there are some instances where our consciousness comes into the picture. And these are so-called negative affordances. So for instance, I'm moving around a cliff in a mountain,

03:20 - and I hold because I'm afraid of, dropping down. So our body alerts us in these instances that say, I want to go forward, but I suddenly see a wall in front of me and I stop. This is also relational. So the wall doesn't, project itself to us as negative as he calls, preventer over action. unless we are wanting to do one, something, unless we want to enter a, a building or unless we want, to continue our walk over the cliff.

04:00 - normally we don't care. We don't go close to the cliff, but the body says, this is extremely, dangerous situation we have to hold, and the consciousness, alerts us. So I find this extremely interesting because at, at first, it's a body, reacting to the environment in this specific ways. We are naturally gliding into the environment, without thinking.

04:28 - But in some instances, we are halted, we are afraid. We, we stop, we have to consider what's going on. So this negative awareness is something I've been used in relation to city and to the vertical verticality of the mega structures. so, it is, again, it is something to do with our actions. Its relation to, to what we intend to do. then, the other person or other philosopher, if you like, which I'm interested is,

05:03 - guin b la he hasn't been, translated, until lately, but there's one book of his which have been greatly going around the world for artists and architects, which is the poetics of space. And, I read it, when it was translated to finish. and I have read another version of it when it's translated into English. and there's something very fascinating about this book.

05:33 - His way of writing about it, opens up new associations immediately. So it's, it's very provocative, if you like the, they, he is the one who died 62. He's one of the French continental philosophers who is interested in phenomenonology. So the, the way we are in the world, in world of perception. And he has written, many, many books about elements like air, water, fire, and so on.

06:07 - but before that, he, was a scientist or philosophy of science, especially interested in epistemology. So how we know things, what we know, what's going on in the scientific world. And he was the one who appeared to have understood that scientific knowledge is not evolution, which is gradual, giving us more and more information. It's in, in fact, erupted.

06:40 - So there are these disruptions of, or breaks in epistemological disciplines. So suddenly, the whole world of, let's say chemistry changes or physics changes. So we have this new concept and new structures of knowledge, which then appear, and we are applying them to our, our scientific actions or whatever. And, because he understood then early on that this is relational, it's something to do

07:14 - with us wanting to know something, and then new discipline appears, and then the all goes. and how do we know that the concept we are using are truth to the reality? And, of course, phenomenologists who, cell and others have been already talking about that. looking, the only way we can see the reality, is to go back to the perception. So this is what we know through our body and through our senses.

07:50 - And the perception gives, maybe, like a, a trigger. It triggers us, something, which is then the conceptual thinking. We are naming things, we are looking at things and trying to understand the structure of the world. and, so things appear phenomenon, phenomenal of phenomenon are to us. And it's worthwhile looking at the perception because it gives deeper understanding how the conceptual,

08:19 - abstract world is constructed and how we use the concept and for what purposes. And when these, items become redundant, when we are not anymore using them, they are not anymore usable. so one example is that we don't use anymore the religious vocabulary so much because it doesn't make sense anymore. 'cause we are interested in other things, not spiritual things.

08:47 - So this perception is of course, immediately, what I could call, difficult to understand because perception is not always stable. and this unstable nature of it, is fascinating. so the perception or the experience is unique each time. the instant of the movement, is what fascinates. so what happens in the instant, we see something,

09:25 - which we haven't seen ever feed before. So one example, which I have here is, is the, lemon. So we say, in scientific, view of this lemon, it's, it's, rough surface. It's a little bit, dusty or or watery or whatever. And it has a yellow color. These are concepts which are based on scientific knowledge about the qualities, and,

10:03 - and, attributes of this specific, lemon. But it doesn't interest, his interest is in the significance or authenticity of this particular lemon and the way it's formed. so it's not analyzing them from the formal points of view, but analyzing it's from the, from what it is as a whole. So the lemon has color of lemon only

10:34 - because it's a lemon. It can be taken away from it. It doesn't tell anything specific about this lemon except that, there are other things which are, have the same color, but this specific lemon is individual and me perceiving it and thinking about eating it. I have a specific intention to understand it in a how do I open it? And, and is it, is it raw or, is it ready to be, eaten?

11:05 - So he then, constructs this idea of material imagination, which is relational to our being in the world, our situation. I'm only interested in lemon if I really like citrus, and I would like to put it in into my water. but also I would like to put it in my table to watch the beauty of it. so I'm deeply interested in it, in the way it's in my hand, in the way I can feel its goal in my chic and so on.

11:39 - So the formal imagination is, is created, using the words like color, shape, taste, I don't know, scent and so on. So it's analytically looking at the concept abstract. this formal imagination for basal is not redundant as such. it's only the, the formal imagination is taking account. The concept we are using and phenomenological study is,

12:14 - then looking at the deeper, whether these qualifications or these abstracts or concepts are valid in the experience of this, lemon or this specific authentic situation, momentary understanding of things. and the poet poetry, he was interested in poet or so literature. and it is why the, the why, why it is the question. and I think it's because the concepts, the words, so pastor

12:49 - and philosophers in general are interested in concepts. They're looking closer into the concepts, whether what they give, what associations they have, are they not usable or usable, and is co poetry. And poetic language in general is a matter of words. So the materiality and the material imagination arise from understanding of the words, and it's opens up a new world. If we look at word, and the meaning of it in, in isolation, we are not

13:26 - so concerned about it. But if we put two things to two words, which don't belong together, normally we are approaching a new world. So the poetic, poetic, imagination or poetic language in general is associative. And that's of course something which, I realized later that Parla has been interested in psychoanalysis and psychoanalysis. It is a talking of therapy.

13:58 - So it, it's, trying to understand the, the language in its associative creative, emerging, situation where we see things are new through the language. And, but I haven't read so much that I, I would know how this plaque canalicular approach, situates in in her theory, in his theory. so, material imagination is instant momentary temporal situation, related.

14:36 - yeah. So, it has been quite interesting because architects have been interested in this, word, quite much lately. There are many implications for architects. When I read, bachelor for the first time, there was this book, which is called The World of Perception, which is based on his lectures, in, France Broadcasting Company, and it's quite clear book. And in one point, he talks about, proximity to things in perception,

15:12 - and he calls them tic, so causing vertigo. And when I read that, I have scenes kept that in mind quite often because it, it's quite, amazing, observation about perception. So, the thing is that he, in a material imagination, you are not supposed to look at things, from the perceived or priest perceived point, or for, from the world war, which you knew already. You're supposed to look at it as new.

15:48 - And, and in the other book of his, which is, the, phenomenonology of perception, it's quite a big book. He also talks in one chapter, which is about space, about perception of space, and especially, there is one chap, one paragraph or few pages where he talks about, depth. So the space, the space doesn't exist as a thing at all. So when we talk about space, it is not aian space, which is a void where things, appear,

16:28 - object, next to another. No, it is again, something which is related to us and our perception. So the world is holding us as we are holding the world. So in phenomenological thinking, the subject and the object are merging. And depending what we want, similar to Gibson, the distance is far or, or too far or close. So it is relational to ourselves. And when we realize that

17:01 - it's quite a radical change into our worldview, because then everything is somehow vague or oblique or not clear. I have one, one, like an example of it. I call it a morning shimmer. when I was younger, I woke up, early morning, many times, and I couldn't understand where I was. There was this morning, twilight, quite diffused light, and things were there, but there were pulsating, and I didn't know what they were.

17:39 - They were like, like an energized things, which I wanted to know what they are, like an alien, coming to the world. And, like, proximity or their distance, was, was changing all the time. Oliver Sachs talks about this in his books quite a lot. So people, people are experiencing, anomalies, in the perception only after when we find minutes or something, I realize that's a drawer, it's not a living thing, or that's a painting.

18:15 - It's not a, animated object. So this kind of a pre perceive, world is suddenly, disappeared and a chaos exists. So this chaos of things which are not named yet is the vertigo. It's, it's us understanding that the things which were named by power parents or our culture or our language don't exist anymore. We are in the primorial situation where things are just what they are, and they affect us, not so that we see,

18:49 - that's a table only, or that's a painting only. and this, sort of teaching us, or, confusion or perception, or is something I'm really interested in because it gives a birth to ideas about how do we see the modern world, where the perception is overloaded by central information. And we don't know exactly what's going on. possibly our body is alerted like in a Ian way. So there's something going on, which we can't really say what it is.

19:25 - Our body is, tense all the time. it's, like, Basler talks about poetic images, which are cozy, so pleasurable. We glide into coziness of the world. When we are in nature, for instance, we have just perceive it and we naturally live there. But when we are in the city, we are somehow bombarded with things which we don't what they are. So the linguistic, explanation comes into the picture. We are thinking about the meaning of this, what's going on,

20:02 - why this surface is so huge, why it is so immense. I can't fit myself into this. I can't fit myself into this war. sounds, noise, the pollution, everything is overwhelming. So I'm in an element. And, interestingly, he, talks about, the modern life and, the struggle of modern life as well, talking about this noise of the city life where we are suddenly so bombarded with this noise,

20:39 - which disturbs us in the night, and we suddenly think of the ocean or the element of water, because lar is interested in elements like air, higher earth, water. And he thinks that city life is like an ocean city. So it's an element we live in, not that there's one individual object we can identify as ours, it's just, we are submerged into it, like in a water. and, normally we think Ard is not talking about the struggle of,

21:20 - modern life, but he's actually talking quite substantially about it. so there, the protection from the overloading, overloaded, sensory information is, to, retreat into language, trying to understand the meaning. One thing which, which I've been thinking a lot is that, because this poetic, of space and martial art in general has been so inspirational to architects, the material, materially imagination,

21:59 - for instance, is a well, well-known phrase now. And, and people talk about it. there is a conflict which architects, see, or I see myself that, phenomenon talk much about the atmosphere, the sort of pleasurable things of nature, preferable things of house preservable, things of things which we glide in easily, like nukes or house or attics or whatever. and we are at the same time, applied to create

22:36 - and design huge buildings in the city centers. and we don't have any advice how to go about it. so it's like, those who make these high tech buildings in the city are little, but like, you know, the poor things who do that, your architects who are only do that, but not, provoke any pleasurable environments for users. And of course, that is part of the question about that.

23:10 - Who is the developer? Who, what are they doing when they think about these huge mega structures in the city centers? their users are not, their main interest, their profit is the main interest anyways. there is also some, how could I say, poetic possibilities in the city, if you like the city, as an ocean city, the city as a, as a huge potential of communication and, encounters with other people.

23:47 - 'cause that's why we peeled it in the first place. so, so the potential I see in the cities, or mega structures or metropol is of course, the potential of the communal life and communication with each other. but at the same time, the city life is, is, we suffer in city life. The body is suffering, and we want to retreat from there at the same time. so, I'm really

24:26 - interested in studying negative experiences or experiences which are not normal, where we have to halt, we have to stop, we have to think, because in those moments, we are really seeing how the party reacts to, obstacles or, preventers in the environment like Gibson says. And then it means that, for instance, reflective surface in the city must be avoided. There's some sort of a sinister, like an excess

25:03 - of glass and steel structures, which I've been talking earlier, in my career. birds don't like glass. we don't like glass. We have to really think, closely. Is it, is the glass wall or glass door, accessible or not? So it's alerting us all the time. So some, some, circumstances of environment. Some, some situations can be avoided

25:35 - if we know what they, how they affect us, and how the experience is negative rather than a positive. so for me, phenomenologies or architects should invest in, poets of modern life or city life. Not only the poets of small little houses in the countryside, or a retreat into the traditional way of, of building, which is of course, natural thing to do, the traditional craft and so on.

26:06 - But there is a void and we, we can't avoid, not to think about the void. theoretically and aesthetically very important questions.

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