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Decline in Independent Activity as a Cause of Decline in Children’s Mental Well-being

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Peter Gray suggests the primary cause of the rise in mental disorders is a decline over decades in opportunities for children and teens to play, roam, and engage in other activities independent of direct oversight and control by adults.

Image courtesy of interviewee. May 6, 2024

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This video video discusses the decline of children's independence and play due to increasing restrictions in various countries, notably the United States and parts of Europe. Over the years, children have been spending less time outdoors, experiencing fewer opportunities for self-directed play, and becoming more reliant on adult supervision. This video video trend has contributed to a lack of resilience, confidence, and essential life skills in children, as they are less able to face challenges without adult intervention.

The author emphasizes the importance of play for children, which nurtures autonomy, competence, and relatedness—three psychological needs essential for their well-being. As children have less time to play freely, they are more prone to unhappiness and mental health issues. The discussion highlights various social changes that have occurred since the 1950s, including a rise in academic pressure and societal fears about child safety.

Several suggestions are made for encouraging play, such as schools providing "Play Club" sessions with trained adults overseeing but not interfering, and parents collaborating to allow their children to play together in safe environments. The discourse underscores the need for research into effective methods for reversing the trend of reduced play and independence for children, advocating for a balanced approach that allows children to explore and engage in play, promoting psychological resilience and happiness.

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It's to some degree a global problem,

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but it's primarily a problem in certain countries,

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and these tend to be countries that where we have,

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we have been, restricting children's lives.

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Children's lives have been restricted throughout Europe,

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I could say, but less so in some countries than others.

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And they've been restricted

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tremendously in the United States.

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And I think a similar thing is true in the uk.

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Over time, over time we are see seeing,

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fewer and fewer children outdoors,

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doing things on their own, seeing more

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and more children in adult directed activities,

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children spending more

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and more time at school and schoolwork.

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The school year has increased in many ways.

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Um, the opportunities for children

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to engage in self-directed activities to learn how

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to manage their own lives, because these oppor,

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because there's always an adult around managing things

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for them, have been, taken away.

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And the result of that is

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that we're seeing children growing up,

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to their teenage years, even growing up beyond that, not,

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developing the confidence, the skills,

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the internal character traits, the courage, if you will, to,

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take charge of their own life to do risky things to

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that, to experience the bumps in the road

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of life without falling apart from them.

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And so I'm convinced that that is the major,

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major reason for the increase.

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This increase has been gradual over many years throughout

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the second half of the 20th century.

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Uh, and,

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and we're still seeing the effects of that now.

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One thing that we know that was happening really beginning

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as early as the 1950s,

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but then, increasing over time is that we were taking,

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children's, freedom in a sense

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to be children away from them.

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We were gradually restricting their ability

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to play independently of adults, their ability to

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be out in the public without constantly being guarded.

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Uh, we were gradually increasing the amount

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of time they were spending in school, the amount

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of schoolwork they were doing at home.

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We were gradually increasing the amount

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of adult directed activities outside of school

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that they were doing gradually.

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In other words, taking away, their opportunities

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to learn how to initiate their own activities,

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control their own activities, do things

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that are a little bit dangerous,

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realize they can survive it.

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Uh, learn how to make friends

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and keep friends, which all of this is

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what children do when they're playing

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with other children away from adults.

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And, we have been gradually depriving children

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of the ability to do that.

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I'm, convinced

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and, present much of the data for this in various

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of my publications in including the most recent,

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article in the Journal of Pediatrics.

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Uh, that, that this rise that I was talking about

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through the second half of the 20th century was largely

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because of our taking away the opportunities for children

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to learn the kinds of skills

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and character traits that create resilience, that create,

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you know, I can, I can do this.

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I can feel some fear and it doesn't destroy me.

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I can, be bullied

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and, you know, I've been bullied before.

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I can handle that. I can, you know, learning how to deal

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with the bumps of the road of life.

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That's what child, that's what much of childhood is about.

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And it can't occur if you've got an adult there always

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protecting you from the bumps of the road of life.

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And so that's part of it.

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But then there's another even more obvious part of it,

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and it's almost amazing to me that more people,

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aren't talking about this.

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You take away play from children, and what do you expect?

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They're gonna be less happy, right?

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I mean, that's a no brainer.

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I mean, gosh, why didn't we think of that?

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You know, my God, take away play.

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I mean, play is what makes children happy.

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And we're in, instead of play,

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we've put them in all these kind of anxiety provoking,

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constantly judged positions.

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And, you know, there's a, there's a,

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a famous play researcher Brian Sutton Smith

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who died a few years ago.

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And he used to say in talks, the opposite

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of play is not work.

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The opposite of play is depression. You take away play.

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I don't use, I don't say that exact way

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'cause the grammar doesn't quite make sense to me,

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but if you take away play from, kids,

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they're gonna be depressed.

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It's as in, in a way, it's as simple as that.

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But it is actually also more complex

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because you take away play

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and you're also taking away the vehicle

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through which children learn

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to be resilient in the long run.

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We're no longer sending kids outdoors.

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Um, I think there's a lot of reasons for that.

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Um, houses are bigger, at least in the United States,

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the less need to send them out.

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Families tend to be smaller and so on.

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And so that's part of it. A bigger part of that,

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and the United States at least, I believe the same is true

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and much of Europe and in the uk, is that we have been made

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to be frightened of kids being outdoors.

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We believe there are these dangers out there.

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Uh, in the us this was accelerated in the 1980s.

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There were a couple of cases when, in the

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or late 1970s, when in the early nine, it went around 1981

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of young boys being kidnapped and murdered.

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Now, this is a very rare occurrence, because it's rare

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and because of it's terrible.

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It made big news. And so everybody heard about it.

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And the idea that the, the concept

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of stranger danger came about in the United States.

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Everybody's afraid that strangers were going

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to kidnap their kids or murder their kids

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or molest their kids or do something terrible to their kids.

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And, and the idea became about almost

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that you were a negligent parent if you do

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what parents always used to do, which was

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to send their kids out without going out with them

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or having some adult there to guard them.

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So that was part of it.

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Schooling increased the amount of time in schooling

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between 1950

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and the end of the 20th century in the United States,

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we added five full additional weeks to the school year.

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This, I've looked back at the data,

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we also have added homework in elementary school.

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When I was in school in 1950s, there was no

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homework in elementary school.

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Now even kindergartners are taking home homework.

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So you, even when school is over, school isn't over,

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you're now doing homework.

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We took away, we begin to think,

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wouldn't it be nice if instead of the kids having to go out

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and make up their own ball games, let's do it for them.

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Let's have adults run the games and, do it.

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We've got an umpires, we've got all,

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we've got official rules, and so on and so forth.

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What, and, and all this was good intentions,

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but the result is you're taking away from kids the task

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and the pleasure and the growing experience

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of making their own games, creating their own rules,

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negotiating issues themselves, figuring out how to, how

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to make things fair.

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When, when you take away all this from children,

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you're taking away the opportunities for them

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to grow psychologically.

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So self-determination theory is, is all

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of the word theory is there.

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It's not really a theory, it's a whole field of research

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that has to do with the difference between how people

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feel and behave when they are in charge of

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what they're doing, or they at least perceive themselves

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as in charge of what they're doing versus when they feel

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that they're doing something that they're re being required

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or pushed by other people to do.

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Now, right off, you can see that over time, we have given

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children less and less opportunity to feel in charge of

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what they're doing, to feel like they're doing

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what they wanna do, as opposed to doing

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what some adult is telling them they ought to be doing.

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Now, within self-determination theory,

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there is something called basic needs theory.

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Again, not a theory, but, the, the

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premise here is

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that there are three basic psychological needs that all

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of us need, regardless of our age, need to satisfy in order

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to feel, happy, to feel mentally well,

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to feel satisfied with life.

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One of those needs is the, is the need for autonomy,

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the need to feel like I've got,

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I can make some choices in my life.

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I'm in charge of my life.

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In, in, in some sense, at least, none

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of us are totally in charge of our lives,

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but to the degree that we feel we're in charge

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of our life, we feel better.

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The second, the second need is competence.

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Competence means really,

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it doesn't mean being good at what somebody else

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wants us to be good at.

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It means being good at what we wanna be good at, right?

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It means that I wanna do this.

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I wanna choose to do this, but I also wanna be good at it,

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and I wanna get good at it.

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The third of these is, is relatedness,

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which really means having friends, having peers.

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We all need peers. We need social support.

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We need people who like us, and we like them.

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Now, the point I wanna make here is how do children satisfy

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these three basic needs?

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They satisfy them primarily through play,

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especially young children.

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Play is autonomy.

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Play is by definition doing what you've decided to do.

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You are in charge of it.

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You make the rules, you do the negotiating.

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You, you are in charge of, that's autonomy.

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Play is also

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how children become competent in what they care about.

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Children play at various things.

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They find things they really care about. They play at 'em.

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They in part of that play, they work at it,

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they become good at it,

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and they feel good about being good at the

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things that they care about.

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And especially for young children, in terms of relatedness

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play is how children make friends.

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Uh, for, for a kid under the age of 12, a friend, almost

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by definition, is somebody that you play with.

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So play and play is how play is how you learn

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to make friends, how you keep friends.

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So by taking play free, play away from children,

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what we are doing is depriving them of their primary means,

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of satisfying these three basic needs

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for psychological wellbeing.

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So, all, just one thing. I would say,

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not a little bit more controlling, way more controlling

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at least than they were when I was a kid, right?

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So I think that it's, it is difficult for parents today.

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I know more parents who would like to send their kids out

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that really would like to send their kids out.

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But we've got the problem that, let's say you do,

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you dare send your kid out.

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Nobody else is sending their kid out.

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You know, kids are not interested in the

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great outdoors all by themselves.

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We might wish they were, but they're not.

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And, they're interested in other kids.

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And if there are no other kids out there to play

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with, what are they gonna do?

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They're gonna, they're gonna be bored.

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They're gonna get on their iPhone if they,

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their cell phone, if they got one.

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Uh, and interact with their friends,

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the only way they can, right?

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So, so that doesn't work.

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You've gotta find ways that there's gonna be a bunch of kids

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able to play, and ideally a bunch of kids who are,

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can play regularly together.

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So we've been working,

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here in the United States on various ways to do that.

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Uh, one way is through schools, offering free play

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before school or after school where, there's an adult

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for safety, but the adult is trained not to intervene, not

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to tell the kids how to play, not to solve minor problems.

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That play, part of the whole function of play is to,

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for kids to learn how to solve their own problems.

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Many of the schools that do this, call it play club,

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but they have it sometimes before school, sometimes

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after school, at least an hour long.

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And there's all kinds of things to play with.

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There are kids of all ages.

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It's usually elementary school,

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kindergarten through fifth grade.

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And, and this has been a great success.

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Uh, and the only rule is don't hurt anybody.

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At least not on purpose.

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So that's the, that's one way, by trying

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to encourage schools to do this.

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It's the equipment is there at most schools.

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Uh, you could add some equipment.

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It's very inexpensive to do that.

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You just need to have at least one adult there to do it.

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And, this is one way to solve it.

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Another thing that I suggest to parents,

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and this is a little bit more difficult to do in some ways,

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but in other ways easier, is, get together

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with other parents in your neighborhood.

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Uh, get to know the other parents in your

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neighborhood who have kids

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And talk to them. Maybe

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talk to them. You, you know,

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remember the old days when we used to go out

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and play, how much fun that is.

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And it would be great if our kids had that opportunity,

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and maybe we can arrange that.

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You know, what, if every Saturday afternoon and, or sat

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and certain other days on,

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after school, we just all sent our kids out.

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And, we just all send them out, get outta the house.

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You can't be in the house anymore

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and leave the cell phone in sort inside,

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that they send, we send them out.

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And if parents are worried, we have one parent out there.

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I I usually suggest a grandparent

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because I think grandparents are generally more relaxed

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and better at this than parents are

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out there just for safety.

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Uh, and, and just let 'em play.

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And, it may take a little while for them to figure out

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how to play, but especially if you've got little kids in the

14:34.385 --> 14:35.985
mix, they haven't really forgotten how to play.

14:36.005 --> 14:37.665
And they often are lead the way.

14:37.845 --> 14:40.345
That's one of the reasons I like age, mix, play.

14:40.365 --> 14:42.305
The little kids know how to play,

14:42.365 --> 14:45.665
and they stimulate the older kids and teenagers into it.

14:46.325 --> 14:48.465
So that's, that's another route.

14:48.775 --> 14:50.425
It's hard to do. I can't say

14:50.615 --> 14:52.205
That it's really common here,

14:52.205 --> 14:53.925
but there are neighborhoods that do it.

14:53.985 --> 14:56.245
It takes some initiative to get it started.

14:56.935 --> 14:58.045
There are various other things.

14:58.095 --> 14:59.685
We've got increasing numbers

14:59.825 --> 15:01.605
of libraries in the United States

15:01.605 --> 15:03.365
that are offering play at the library.

15:03.365 --> 15:05.485
They're recognizing this is a community need.

15:05.785 --> 15:09.125
Um, some of them are offering really free play.

15:09.125 --> 15:11.765
They close the, they say that for people who want quiet,

15:11.875 --> 15:14.085
they, there's a room there where you can go to.

15:14.185 --> 15:16.365
But we are opening up the main part of the library

15:16.545 --> 15:18.805
for play at, indoors and outdoors,

15:18.865 --> 15:20.885
or a few libraries doing that kind of thing.

15:21.645 --> 15:25.165
A lot of libraries in this country now have maker spaces in

15:25.165 --> 15:27.565
them, which is basically constructive play

15:27.715 --> 15:29.085
with high tech equipment.

15:29.145 --> 15:30.645
And the kids love that.

15:30.825 --> 15:33.245
And they're generally better at learning how

15:33.245 --> 15:34.805
to do it than the adults are.

15:35.025 --> 15:38.885
And so these are some of the things that are going on that,

15:39.065 --> 15:43.725
that, that, that, that are, that are ways

15:43.725 --> 15:45.725
that parents can, can look into

15:45.865 --> 15:48.845
and pursue to try to bring more play for their children.

15:49.335 --> 15:52.605
We're not gonna, I, in any immediate sense, go back to the

15:53.185 --> 15:56.125
era that I grew up in, where you just go outdoors

15:56.265 --> 15:57.645
and there's kids to play with.

15:57.985 --> 16:01.245
Um, we're, most parents are not gonna send their kids out

16:01.385 --> 16:05.005
unless there is an adult there somehow

16:05.545 --> 16:09.725
who would be responsible for safety that children need more.

16:09.725 --> 16:11.205
Play is well established.

16:11.265 --> 16:14.205
If we ever needed research for that, I'm not sure we did,

16:14.945 --> 16:16.605
but there's lots of research.

16:16.795 --> 16:17.885
It's summarized well.

16:17.905 --> 16:19.645
And there's an article that I've published in,

16:20.025 --> 16:21.445
in the Journal of Pediatrics,

16:21.445 --> 16:23.565
but it's summarized many other places too.

16:24.345 --> 16:26.845
Uh, never hurts to have more research of that sort,

16:26.865 --> 16:28.165
but we don't need that research.

16:28.555 --> 16:33.205
What we need research is how in this world, what is going

16:33.205 --> 16:37.365
to work to reverse, this,

16:37.745 --> 16:38.845
de this deprivation?

16:38.845 --> 16:40.125
What are the things we can do?

16:41.145 --> 16:45.125
So for example, I mentioned what we're doing in schools,

16:45.545 --> 16:47.605
to bring what the schools called Play Club.

16:47.605 --> 16:49.845
We're actually doing research on that right now.

16:50.505 --> 16:53.125
So we're doing some studies, some controlled studies

16:53.215 --> 16:55.645
where some schools are doing it, others are not.

16:56.385 --> 16:59.405
Uh, similar schools we're looking before and

16:59.405 --> 17:03.165
after, over a year or more of having these opportunities.

17:03.355 --> 17:05.085
What effect has this had on the kids?

17:05.395 --> 17:07.285
What effect has it had on the schools?

17:07.395 --> 17:09.925
What effect has it had on parents in terms

17:09.925 --> 17:11.885
of their feeling more, able

17:11.945 --> 17:14.325
and willing to give their kids a little bit more

17:14.325 --> 17:15.685
free reign in their own lives?

17:16.385 --> 17:19.245
So that's, that's one kind of research. Research.

17:19.505 --> 17:22.765
Um, I think research on, how

17:24.395 --> 17:28.875
I, how we can best convince parents

17:29.345 --> 17:32.755
that, they need to loosen the reins on their kids.

17:33.535 --> 17:36.795
We really need research on how to solve the problem.

17:37.295 --> 17:40.595
Uh, we can come up with ideas, the ideas

17:40.595 --> 17:42.275
that I just presented, for example.

17:42.895 --> 17:46.315
But it'd be nice to, to be able to cite some evidence. Okay?

17:46.335 --> 17:49.875
So those neighborhoods that have done this,

17:50.615 --> 17:52.195
the kids are better in some way.

17:52.195 --> 17:53.875
It'd be nice to have, be able to document that

17:53.935 --> 17:57.875
and not just say it based on, on anecdotes.

00:00 - It's to some degree a global problem, but it's primarily a problem in certain countries, and these tend to be countries that where we have, we have been, restricting children's lives. Children's lives have been restricted throughout Europe, I could say, but less so in some countries than others.

00:21 - And they've been restricted tremendously in the United States. And I think a similar thing is true in the uk. Over time, over time we are see seeing, fewer and fewer children outdoors, doing things on their own, seeing more and more children in adult directed activities, children spending more and more time at school and schoolwork. The school year has increased in many ways.

00:49 - the opportunities for children to engage in self-directed activities to learn how to manage their own lives, because these oppor, because there's always an adult around managing things for them, have been, taken away. And the result of that is that we're seeing children growing up, to their teenage years, even growing up beyond that, not, developing the confidence, the skills, the internal character traits, the courage, if you will, to,

01:24 - take charge of their own life to do risky things to that, to experience the bumps in the road of life without falling apart from them. And so I'm convinced that that is the major, major reason for the increase. This increase has been gradual over many years throughout the second half of the 20th century. and, and we're still seeing the effects of that now. One thing that we know that was happening really beginning

01:54 - as early as the 1950s, but then, increasing over time is that we were taking, children's, freedom in a sense to be children away from them. We were gradually restricting their ability to play independently of adults, their ability to be out in the public without constantly being guarded. we were gradually increasing the amount of time they were spending in school, the amount of schoolwork they were doing at home.

02:27 - We were gradually increasing the amount of adult directed activities outside of school that they were doing gradually. In other words, taking away, their opportunities to learn how to initiate their own activities, control their own activities, do things that are a little bit dangerous, realize they can survive it. learn how to make friends and keep friends, which all of this is

02:54 - what children do when they're playing with other children away from adults. And, we have been gradually depriving children of the ability to do that. I'm, convinced and, present much of the data for this in various of my publications in including the most recent, article in the Journal of Pediatrics. that, that this rise that I was talking about through the second half of the 20th century was largely

03:23 - because of our taking away the opportunities for children to learn the kinds of skills and character traits that create resilience, that create, you know, I can, I can do this. I can feel some fear and it doesn't destroy me. I can, be bullied and, you know, I've been bullied before. I can handle that. I can, you know, learning how to deal with the bumps of the road of life. That's what child, that's what much of childhood is about.

03:50 - And it can't occur if you've got an adult there always protecting you from the bumps of the road of life. And so that's part of it. But then there's another even more obvious part of it, and it's almost amazing to me that more people, aren't talking about this. You take away play from children, and what do you expect? They're gonna be less happy, right? I mean, that's a no brainer. I mean, gosh, why didn't we think of that?

04:16 - You know, my God, take away play. I mean, play is what makes children happy. And we're in, instead of play, we've put them in all these kind of anxiety provoking, constantly judged positions. And, you know, there's a, there's a, a famous play researcher Brian Sutton Smith who died a few years ago. And he used to say in talks, the opposite of play is not work.

04:42 - The opposite of play is depression. You take away play. I don't use, I don't say that exact way 'cause the grammar doesn't quite make sense to me, but if you take away play from, kids, they're gonna be depressed. It's as in, in a way, it's as simple as that. But it is actually also more complex because you take away play and you're also taking away the vehicle through which children learn

05:05 - to be resilient in the long run. We're no longer sending kids outdoors. I think there's a lot of reasons for that. houses are bigger, at least in the United States, the less need to send them out. Families tend to be smaller and so on. And so that's part of it. A bigger part of that, and the United States at least, I believe the same is true and much of Europe and in the uk, is that we have been made to be frightened of kids being outdoors.

05:34 - We believe there are these dangers out there. in the us this was accelerated in the 1980s. There were a couple of cases when, in the or late 1970s, when in the early nine, it went around 1981 of young boys being kidnapped and murdered. Now, this is a very rare occurrence, because it's rare and because of it's terrible. It made big news. And so everybody heard about it. And the idea that the, the concept of stranger danger came about in the United States.

06:07 - Everybody's afraid that strangers were going to kidnap their kids or murder their kids or molest their kids or do something terrible to their kids. And, and the idea became about almost that you were a negligent parent if you do what parents always used to do, which was to send their kids out without going out with them or having some adult there to guard them. So that was part of it. Schooling increased the amount of time in schooling

06:33 - between 1950 and the end of the 20th century in the United States, we added five full additional weeks to the school year. This, I've looked back at the data, we also have added homework in elementary school. When I was in school in 1950s, there was no homework in elementary school. Now even kindergartners are taking home homework. So you, even when school is over, school isn't over, you're now doing homework.

07:00 - We took away, we begin to think, wouldn't it be nice if instead of the kids having to go out and make up their own ball games, let's do it for them. Let's have adults run the games and, do it. We've got an umpires, we've got all, we've got official rules, and so on and so forth. What, and, and all this was good intentions, but the result is you're taking away from kids the task and the pleasure and the growing experience of making their own games, creating their own rules,

07:31 - negotiating issues themselves, figuring out how to, how to make things fair. When, when you take away all this from children, you're taking away the opportunities for them to grow psychologically. So self-determination theory is, is all of the word theory is there. It's not really a theory, it's a whole field of research that has to do with the difference between how people feel and behave when they are in charge of

08:02 - what they're doing, or they at least perceive themselves as in charge of what they're doing versus when they feel that they're doing something that they're re being required or pushed by other people to do. Now, right off, you can see that over time, we have given children less and less opportunity to feel in charge of what they're doing, to feel like they're doing what they wanna do, as opposed to doing what some adult is telling them they ought to be doing. Now, within self-determination theory,

08:34 - there is something called basic needs theory. Again, not a theory, but, the, the premise here is that there are three basic psychological needs that all of us need, regardless of our age, need to satisfy in order to feel, happy, to feel mentally well, to feel satisfied with life. One of those needs is the, is the need for autonomy, the need to feel like I've got, I can make some choices in my life.

09:09 - I'm in charge of my life. In, in, in some sense, at least, none of us are totally in charge of our lives, but to the degree that we feel we're in charge of our life, we feel better. The second, the second need is competence. Competence means really, it doesn't mean being good at what somebody else wants us to be good at. It means being good at what we wanna be good at, right?

09:38 - It means that I wanna do this. I wanna choose to do this, but I also wanna be good at it, and I wanna get good at it. The third of these is, is relatedness, which really means having friends, having peers. We all need peers. We need social support. We need people who like us, and we like them. Now, the point I wanna make here is how do children satisfy these three basic needs? They satisfy them primarily through play,

10:08 - especially young children. Play is autonomy. Play is by definition doing what you've decided to do. You are in charge of it. You make the rules, you do the negotiating. You, you are in charge of, that's autonomy. Play is also how children become competent in what they care about. Children play at various things. They find things they really care about. They play at 'em.

10:31 - They in part of that play, they work at it, they become good at it, and they feel good about being good at the things that they care about. And especially for young children, in terms of relatedness play is how children make friends. for, for a kid under the age of 12, a friend, almost by definition, is somebody that you play with. So play and play is how play is how you learn to make friends, how you keep friends.

11:00 - So by taking play free, play away from children, what we are doing is depriving them of their primary means, of satisfying these three basic needs for psychological wellbeing. So, all, just one thing. I would say, not a little bit more controlling, way more controlling at least than they were when I was a kid, right? So I think that it's, it is difficult for parents today. I know more parents who would like to send their kids out that really would like to send their kids out.

11:34 - But we've got the problem that, let's say you do, you dare send your kid out. Nobody else is sending their kid out. You know, kids are not interested in the great outdoors all by themselves. We might wish they were, but they're not. And, they're interested in other kids. And if there are no other kids out there to play with, what are they gonna do? They're gonna, they're gonna be bored.

11:57 - They're gonna get on their iPhone if they, their cell phone, if they got one. and interact with their friends, the only way they can, right? So, so that doesn't work. You've gotta find ways that there's gonna be a bunch of kids able to play, and ideally a bunch of kids who are, can play regularly together. So we've been working, here in the United States on various ways to do that.

12:21 - one way is through schools, offering free play before school or after school where, there's an adult for safety, but the adult is trained not to intervene, not to tell the kids how to play, not to solve minor problems. That play, part of the whole function of play is to, for kids to learn how to solve their own problems. Many of the schools that do this, call it play club, but they have it sometimes before school, sometimes after school, at least an hour long. And there's all kinds of things to play with.

12:52 - There are kids of all ages. It's usually elementary school, kindergarten through fifth grade. And, and this has been a great success. and the only rule is don't hurt anybody. At least not on purpose. So that's the, that's one way, by trying to encourage schools to do this. It's the equipment is there at most schools. you could add some equipment.

13:17 - It's very inexpensive to do that. You just need to have at least one adult there to do it. And, this is one way to solve it. Another thing that I suggest to parents, and this is a little bit more difficult to do in some ways, but in other ways easier, is, get together with other parents in your neighborhood. get to know the other parents in your neighborhood who have kids And talk to them. Maybe

13:43 - talk to them. You, you know, remember the old days when we used to go out and play, how much fun that is. And it would be great if our kids had that opportunity, and maybe we can arrange that. You know, what, if every Saturday afternoon and, or sat and certain other days on, after school, we just all sent our kids out. And, we just all send them out, get outta the house. You can't be in the house anymore

14:07 - and leave the cell phone in sort inside, that they send, we send them out. And if parents are worried, we have one parent out there. I I usually suggest a grandparent because I think grandparents are generally more relaxed and better at this than parents are out there just for safety. and, and just let 'em play. And, it may take a little while for them to figure out how to play, but especially if you've got little kids in the

14:34 - mix, they haven't really forgotten how to play. And they often are lead the way. That's one of the reasons I like age, mix, play. The little kids know how to play, and they stimulate the older kids and teenagers into it. So that's, that's another route. It's hard to do. I can't say That it's really common here, but there are neighborhoods that do it. It takes some initiative to get it started.

14:56 - There are various other things. We've got increasing numbers of libraries in the United States that are offering play at the library. They're recognizing this is a community need. some of them are offering really free play. They close the, they say that for people who want quiet, they, there's a room there where you can go to. But we are opening up the main part of the library for play at, indoors and outdoors,

15:18 - or a few libraries doing that kind of thing. A lot of libraries in this country now have maker spaces in them, which is basically constructive play with high tech equipment. And the kids love that. And they're generally better at learning how to do it than the adults are. And so these are some of the things that are going on that, that, that, that, that are, that are ways that parents can, can look into

15:45 - and pursue to try to bring more play for their children. We're not gonna, I, in any immediate sense, go back to the era that I grew up in, where you just go outdoors and there's kids to play with. we're, most parents are not gonna send their kids out unless there is an adult there somehow who would be responsible for safety that children need more. Play is well established. If we ever needed research for that, I'm not sure we did, but there's lots of research.

16:16 - It's summarized well. And there's an article that I've published in, in the Journal of Pediatrics, but it's summarized many other places too. never hurts to have more research of that sort, but we don't need that research. What we need research is how in this world, what is going to work to reverse, this, de this deprivation? What are the things we can do?

16:41 - So for example, I mentioned what we're doing in schools, to bring what the schools called Play Club. We're actually doing research on that right now. So we're doing some studies, some controlled studies where some schools are doing it, others are not. similar schools we're looking before and after, over a year or more of having these opportunities. What effect has this had on the kids? What effect has it had on the schools? What effect has it had on parents in terms

17:09 - of their feeling more, able and willing to give their kids a little bit more free reign in their own lives? So that's, that's one kind of research. Research. I think research on, how I, how we can best convince parents that, they need to loosen the reins on their kids. We really need research on how to solve the problem. we can come up with ideas, the ideas that I just presented, for example.

17:42 - But it'd be nice to, to be able to cite some evidence. Okay? So those neighborhoods that have done this, the kids are better in some way. It'd be nice to have, be able to document that and not just say it based on, on anecdotes.

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