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In 1834, King William IV summoned Viscount Melbourne to form a government. Melbourne assembled a cabinet, including Sir John Cam Hobhouse, a friend of Lord Byron. John Beckett discusses.

Image courtesy of interviewee. May 8, 2024

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This video video discusses John Cam Hobhouse, a prominent politician in early 19th century England, and his connections with notable figures like Lord Byron. After Byron’s death in 1824, Hobhouse served as an MP for Westminster until he chose not to seek reelection in 1833 following the Great Reform Act. This video video explains the intricate methods used to secure his return to Parliament, particularly through the resignation of another MP, Lord Dungannon, who was persuaded to become Home Secretary, thus allowing Hobhouse to fill the vacated seat.

The narrative illustrates difficulties faced in elections, highlighting the resentment of the electorate regarding Hobhouse's return, which they viewed as manipulative. The election process lacked transparency, relying on open votes, leading to bribery and other issues. Hobhouse's election involved significant public spectacle and political maneuvering.

Additionally, it touches on the methods used historically to fill seats in the House of Lords and Commons, discussing the importance of these political strategies for maintaining a stable government and a strong cabinet. Despite the dubious practices, the ultimate goal was to ensure a reliable and effective administration in Parliament, emphasizing the need for capable ministers like Hobhouse. This video video concludes with a reflection on the evolving electoral process and the mechanisms of political power in 19th century England.

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X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

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So John Cam Hop House was a, a leading politician

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in early 19th century England, though his

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reputation was greatly enhanced by the fact that he was

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a very close friend of the poet, Lord Byron.

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And, they, they worked together.

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But Byron died in 1824, and

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after that Hop House was in Parliament,

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he was MP for Westminster.

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And then when that, in 1833,

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he decided to stand down from Parliament.

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Um, and, therefore, when the election occurred that year

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after, the Great Reform Act,

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he didn't stand for reelection.

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The, the simple way of doing.

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Well, there was no simple way of doing it,

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but they came up with a method of doing it.

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In other words, what you had to do was to ensure that one

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of your mps stood down, in order.

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That, that, that he could then

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ho House could then be elected, and sit in the comments.

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But of course, MPS just been elected, just it's coming

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to par, weren't all that keen.

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He can understand what I'm saying here.

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So then we asked to stand down

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because the,

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the party in power wanted somebody else in, in there.

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So you had to bribe them, basically.

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We'll use the word bribe,

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but this is perhaps a bit stressful, but nevermind.

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Uh, and what they did was the sitting mp, one

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of the sitting mps for the City of Nottingham, town

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of Nottingham, was a man called Lord Dun Gannon.

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And his father was in the House of Lords.

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So what they decided to do was to persuade Dun Gannon

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to accept an a, a post which would enable him

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to go into the House of Lords.

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But at the same time, he remain politically active.

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In fact, they, he was made home secretary, which is the one

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of the key offices of state.

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So he went off into House of Lords, sat, I dunno, sat next

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to his father, presumably somewhere,

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somewhere in the House of Awards.

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Uh, and then the, the way it was open

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for, to stand for public

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and get collected to one of the two seats, to one that,

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vacated

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being sent Nelson Lords.

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And it wasn't strictly legal, it wasn't really meant to be

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for his purpose, but that was how it was done.

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But the problem was that once he was, once Hop House was,

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brought back towards Parliament,

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the, the issue that was raised is

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why should the people have not yet be expected just to

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elect this man who they didn't know

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anyway, who was just what we call a carpet bag

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or something like that, as political terms.

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Um, and so it was a, a huge dispute, which

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Is very well documented as to how

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He was then. What

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House was then, Uh,

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Brought into Parliament, Um,

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In order to take a seat.

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And because once he got a seat, he could become a minister

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to the state, and that meant that he could,

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act as a minister, sit in the cabinet and so forth.

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So the plan itself worked, but because the local

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Electric did not like this method

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Of being utilized, the, the problem was that,

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there was a great dispute,

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and the election should normally have been a formality.

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When a guy, when a man was, made an, made a,

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made a minister, he had to re,

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re-submit himself to his electorate.

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It was just a formality.

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And the majority, majority of cases of this,

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I think it's something like 86%, were, were fine

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because nobody was gonna dispute this.

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The chap, all he'd done was get sent to the cabinet,

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which is probably a good thing from

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the Constituency's viewpoint.

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And then they could all sit down,

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and become much, you know, carry on doing things.

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But the, the Nazi electorate was

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so annoyed at the way in which they'd been treated, the

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Way in which they thought they'd been used,

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Uh, that they insisted on having

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All the,

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Paraphernalia of a general elector,

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in their constituency.

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So that meant you've got to have,

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Uh, you've Gotta have people

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Brought in, you've got to have

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Candidates nominated.

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And then, we, we know much about how

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that election took place

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For the, That we have it all set out in

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Pop House's diary,

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Which he wrote at great length, and the diaries

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In the British Library. So

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it's still accessible.

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And, well, that, that was about as far as it got.

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And then he went on, he stayed in the House of Commons,

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until 1847 when he was, dumped out

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of the aging, the, the, the commons in noting, well,

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what happened was that, ho Hobhouse had agreed

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that he would stand for Nottingham, in order

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to get himself elected into the House of Commons.

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So, just been explaining, and, that was, that was fine.

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But the normal policy was that the, the person involved,

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someone who the, the government wanted in the cabinet.

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And so they were brought in by this method.

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But the method itself went back

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to the 17th centuries, Charles ii.

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Um, and the, the idea was that you, you, you, you

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produced a mechanism whereby, individual

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members could be raised into the, into

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what we call the Upper House, the House of Lords.

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And if you could get people into the House of Lords,

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not only could you strengthen the power of the government

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by having, it's a debate that still goes on today about

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how many people are in the Lords

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and so forth, and what they do.

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Uh, but you could also vacate a seat in the Commons,

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which is what we're talking about, where Hobhouse got his,

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got his seat from.

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But Dun Cannan,

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dun Canon had been raised at the House of Lords.

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And what they were doing there was saying, right, we need

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to, to, to free up space in the Commons.

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We need more experienced ministers.

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Hop House is claim to fame was, and

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therefore we need to make sure that there is,

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there is a seat for him.

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So what happens is that you just find this way, the Father

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who is the holder of the title, and

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therefore sits in the House of Lords.

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So let's call him Lord.

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Well, let's call him the Earl of Gun Cannon.

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So he, he is sitting in the House of Lords,

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but they need to release, and more seats.

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So they, the government goes back, to the Commons

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and says, we need more, you know,

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and a mechanism is arrived at whereby the youngest, the son,

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who is going to inherit from the Father, okay?

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When the Father dies, the son will inherit.

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So what they do is that they is, the Father already has

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the title Lord, whatever.

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And what they do is they make the Son the next in line

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to the title, they make him

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appear in his father's lifetime, okay?

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So he becomes, eligible to sit in the House of Lords

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alongside his father, or at least somewhere in the, the ity.

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And that method is used quite a few times

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from the 17th century onwards.

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And it has the effect of in, of raise,

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increasing the number by one in the House of Lords,

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but then knowing that when the Father dies, the son

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will inherit the title, and

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therefore they won't actually be increasing the size

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of the Lords beyond every now

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and again when this method was used.

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I hope that makes some sense.

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'cause it's, well, basically every, it's not

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that far different from the method that we have today in

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that there were constituencies,

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there would be county constituencies sending two members

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back to Parliament, and there would be town

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or urban constituencies,

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and they would send two candidates as well.

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So each constituency had two

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mps, if that makes sense.

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And then when you have an election, these mps are

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returned, or not, as the case may be,

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but the electoral system was rather different from others.

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Instead of having, a secret ballot,

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which only came in in 1872 in this country,

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it was all open to all sorts of, problems, let's say,

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to, men being, bribed,

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lots of money changing hands.

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And, the elections themselves would be very,

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not always,

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but in the bigger constituencies, there would often be,

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very rowdy.

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There would be lots of, hustings and,

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and, debates within the different areas

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all made more difficult in those days, of course.

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'cause they didn't have any microphones.

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So you've got, no, you've gotta do it all by shouting.

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And so we read on one occasion that Ho House went

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to the window of his hotel, which was on the first floor,

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and he opened the window and he did his best to shout out

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what the message he wanted to get over.

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So it is not an easy method at all.

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Uh, and there they are sort of desperately trying

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to get information over so

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that people will vote in the right way.

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So then they have the hustings,

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then they have the election itself,

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which would take place almost, probably over one

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or two days in the Nazi constituency.

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You had, the cons, the,

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it lasted from two days.

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It started on day one, eight o'clock in the morning,

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finished at four o'clock in the afternoon, day two,

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eight o'clock till four o'clock.

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And then by four 15, because it was an open vote,

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because everybody could see who was voting for what,

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the returning officer was able to say who'd been elected.

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And that, that stage, they have another round

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of rebel rebellious activity.

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And very often they, have p new mps,

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pulled in a, in a cart of some sort around the town.

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Uh, all sorts of things of this nature.

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All sort of fairly, fairly grim from

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what I can read about it.

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But that's what they did. Uh,

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and then eventually, the, the candidate would,

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or the successful candidate would, would make a speech

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of some sort,

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and then if he was able to, he'd summon his horse

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and get outta town as quickly as he could, to,

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to stop any further expense, at the, which was part

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of what he was expected to do.

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I noticed with Hobhouse, for example, when he

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left Nottingham, in 1834, the first

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before he was allowed, was it really to, to go, he had

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to make, contribu sub substantial contributions

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towards the, dis the dispensary and the hospital.

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You know, you've got to sort of make your, financial,

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imprint on it.

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So it was, it was lively elections.

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There were lively, particularly in open quote,

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open constituencies.

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And, there were more of those after 1832 reform.

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So there'd be a lot going on.

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And, there would be a lot of, well,

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I think there'd be a lot of drink.

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There would be a lot of, other forms

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of activity and so forth.

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Uh, and eventually after about a week of, great fun

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and games, the, the guy would go back,

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mean Hope House went back,

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he went straight back into the House of Commons

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to take his seat, and then he didn't have to worry about

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until the next election, which actually turned out

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to be only six months after that.

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So he, he got quite a lot of being a mp.

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I think it shows the, in good

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detail the way in which elections worked

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and the way in which methods were used

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to get people into the House of Commons,

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in particular the House of Commons.

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'cause that was by the 19th century already.

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The, the, the Superior House.

13:35.975 --> 13:40.115
Um, and government governments and mps

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and, prime ministers

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and so on needed to get good candidates into the,

13:46.385 --> 13:47.715
into the House of Commons.

13:47.915 --> 13:49.635
'cause that's where the real power lay.

13:50.295 --> 13:53.675
And so they had, because they had no mechanism

13:53.745 --> 13:54.755
that would really work.

13:54.775 --> 13:58.035
It couldn't just, we don't now do, we, we we only have

13:58.295 --> 14:01.075
by elections when an MP has died or whatever.

14:01.655 --> 14:06.155
You don't usually have people just floating around saying,

14:06.155 --> 14:09.595
perhaps I'll, perhaps I'll stand for Parliament.

14:09.595 --> 14:11.275
It doesn't happen like that. Uh,

14:11.275 --> 14:14.555
and so the mechanism has to be put in place,

14:14.655 --> 14:17.715
as they did in order to make sure that you,

14:17.735 --> 14:21.875
you had a working majority in the House of Commons.

14:22.055 --> 14:25.315
And that also included that you had a good number of,

14:25.695 --> 14:30.595
of reliable cabinet ministers, hence the John h Ho houses,

14:30.935 --> 14:33.155
to position that they, the,

14:33.155 --> 14:35.995
the government like out Melbourne wanted him in the cabinet,

14:36.655 --> 14:39.835
in, and he had to find a way of getting him there.

14:40.265 --> 14:42.435
That was the basic ethos.

14:42.895 --> 14:44.515
You need a cabinet, which is strong,

14:45.255 --> 14:49.675
and if that means a bit of Jiggery pokery, then

14:49.935 --> 14:50.435
so be it.

00:00 - So John Cam Hop House was a, a leading politician in early 19th century England, though his reputation was greatly enhanced by the fact that he was a very close friend of the poet, Lord Byron. And, they, they worked together. But Byron died in 1824, and

00:22 - after that Hop House was in Parliament, he was MP for Westminster. And then when that, in 1833, he decided to stand down from Parliament. and, therefore, when the election occurred that year after, the Great Reform Act, he didn't stand for reelection. The, the simple way of doing. Well, there was no simple way of doing it, but they came up with a method of doing it.

00:52 - In other words, what you had to do was to ensure that one of your mps stood down, in order. That, that, that he could then ho House could then be elected, and sit in the comments. But of course, MPS just been elected, just it's coming to par, weren't all that keen. He can understand what I'm saying here. So then we asked to stand down because the, the party in power wanted somebody else in, in there.

01:23 - So you had to bribe them, basically. We'll use the word bribe, but this is perhaps a bit stressful, but nevermind. and what they did was the sitting mp, one of the sitting mps for the City of Nottingham, town of Nottingham, was a man called Lord Dun Gannon. And his father was in the House of Lords. So what they decided to do was to persuade Dun Gannon to accept an a, a post which would enable him to go into the House of Lords.

01:53 - But at the same time, he remain politically active. In fact, they, he was made home secretary, which is the one of the key offices of state. So he went off into House of Lords, sat, I dunno, sat next to his father, presumably somewhere, somewhere in the House of Awards. and then the, the way it was open for, to stand for public and get collected to one of the two seats, to one that, vacated

02:32 - being sent Nelson Lords. And it wasn't strictly legal, it wasn't really meant to be for his purpose, but that was how it was done. But the problem was that once he was, once Hop House was, brought back towards Parliament, the, the issue that was raised is why should the people have not yet be expected just to elect this man who they didn't know anyway, who was just what we call a carpet bag or something like that, as political terms.

03:12 - and so it was a, a huge dispute, which Is very well documented as to how He was then. What House was then, Brought into Parliament, In order to take a seat. And because once he got a seat, he could become a minister to the state, and that meant that he could, act as a minister, sit in the cabinet and so forth. So the plan itself worked, but because the local

03:44 - Electric did not like this method Of being utilized, the, the problem was that, there was a great dispute, and the election should normally have been a formality. When a guy, when a man was, made an, made a, made a minister, he had to re, re-submit himself to his electorate. It was just a formality. And the majority, majority of cases of this, I think it's something like 86%, were, were fine

04:20 - because nobody was gonna dispute this. The chap, all he'd done was get sent to the cabinet, which is probably a good thing from the Constituency's viewpoint. And then they could all sit down, and become much, you know, carry on doing things. But the, the Nazi electorate was so annoyed at the way in which they'd been treated, the Way in which they thought they'd been used, that they insisted on having

04:44 - All the, Paraphernalia of a general elector, in their constituency. So that meant you've got to have, you've Gotta have people Brought in, you've got to have Candidates nominated. And then, we, we know much about how that election took place For the, That we have it all set out in

05:10 - Pop House's diary, Which he wrote at great length, and the diaries In the British Library. So it's still accessible. And, well, that, that was about as far as it got. And then he went on, he stayed in the House of Commons, until 1847 when he was, dumped out of the aging, the, the, the commons in noting, well, what happened was that, ho Hobhouse had agreed that he would stand for Nottingham, in order

05:42 - to get himself elected into the House of Commons. So, just been explaining, and, that was, that was fine. But the normal policy was that the, the person involved, someone who the, the government wanted in the cabinet. And so they were brought in by this method. But the method itself went back to the 17th centuries, Charles ii. and the, the idea was that you, you, you, you produced a mechanism whereby, individual members could be raised into the, into

06:23 - what we call the Upper House, the House of Lords. And if you could get people into the House of Lords, not only could you strengthen the power of the government by having, it's a debate that still goes on today about how many people are in the Lords and so forth, and what they do. but you could also vacate a seat in the Commons, which is what we're talking about, where Hobhouse got his, got his seat from. But Dun Cannan,

06:50 - dun Canon had been raised at the House of Lords. And what they were doing there was saying, right, we need to, to, to free up space in the Commons. We need more experienced ministers. Hop House is claim to fame was, and therefore we need to make sure that there is, there is a seat for him. So what happens is that you just find this way, the Father who is the holder of the title, and therefore sits in the House of Lords.

07:21 - So let's call him Lord. Well, let's call him the Earl of Gun Cannon. So he, he is sitting in the House of Lords, but they need to release, and more seats. So they, the government goes back, to the Commons and says, we need more, you know, and a mechanism is arrived at whereby the youngest, the son, who is going to inherit from the Father, okay? When the Father dies, the son will inherit. So what they do is that they is, the Father already has

07:59 - the title Lord, whatever. And what they do is they make the Son the next in line to the title, they make him appear in his father's lifetime, okay? So he becomes, eligible to sit in the House of Lords alongside his father, or at least somewhere in the, the ity. And that method is used quite a few times from the 17th century onwards. And it has the effect of in, of raise, increasing the number by one in the House of Lords,

08:37 - but then knowing that when the Father dies, the son will inherit the title, and therefore they won't actually be increasing the size of the Lords beyond every now and again when this method was used. I hope that makes some sense. 'cause it's, well, basically every, it's not that far different from the method that we have today in that there were constituencies, there would be county constituencies sending two members

09:10 - back to Parliament, and there would be town or urban constituencies, and they would send two candidates as well. So each constituency had two mps, if that makes sense. And then when you have an election, these mps are returned, or not, as the case may be, but the electoral system was rather different from others. Instead of having, a secret ballot, which only came in in 1872 in this country,

09:43 - it was all open to all sorts of, problems, let's say, to, men being, bribed, lots of money changing hands. And, the elections themselves would be very, not always, but in the bigger constituencies, there would often be, very rowdy. There would be lots of, hustings and, and, debates within the different areas all made more difficult in those days, of course.

10:19 - 'cause they didn't have any microphones. So you've got, no, you've gotta do it all by shouting. And so we read on one occasion that Ho House went to the window of his hotel, which was on the first floor, and he opened the window and he did his best to shout out what the message he wanted to get over. So it is not an easy method at all. and there they are sort of desperately trying to get information over so that people will vote in the right way.

10:45 - So then they have the hustings, then they have the election itself, which would take place almost, probably over one or two days in the Nazi constituency. You had, the cons, the, it lasted from two days. It started on day one, eight o'clock in the morning, finished at four o'clock in the afternoon, day two, eight o'clock till four o'clock. And then by four 15, because it was an open vote,

11:13 - because everybody could see who was voting for what, the returning officer was able to say who'd been elected. And that, that stage, they have another round of rebel rebellious activity. And very often they, have p new mps, pulled in a, in a cart of some sort around the town. all sorts of things of this nature. All sort of fairly, fairly grim from what I can read about it. But that's what they did.

11:47 - and then eventually, the, the candidate would, or the successful candidate would, would make a speech of some sort, and then if he was able to, he'd summon his horse and get outta town as quickly as he could, to, to stop any further expense, at the, which was part of what he was expected to do. I noticed with Hobhouse, for example, when he left Nottingham, in 1834, the first before he was allowed, was it really to, to go, he had

12:18 - to make, contribu sub substantial contributions towards the, dis the dispensary and the hospital. You know, you've got to sort of make your, financial, imprint on it. So it was, it was lively elections. There were lively, particularly in open quote, open constituencies. And, there were more of those after 1832 reform. So there'd be a lot going on. And, there would be a lot of, well,

12:46 - I think there'd be a lot of drink. There would be a lot of, other forms of activity and so forth. and eventually after about a week of, great fun and games, the, the guy would go back, mean Hope House went back, he went straight back into the House of Commons to take his seat, and then he didn't have to worry about until the next election, which actually turned out to be only six months after that.

13:11 - So he, he got quite a lot of being a mp. I think it shows the, in good detail the way in which elections worked and the way in which methods were used to get people into the House of Commons, in particular the House of Commons. 'cause that was by the 19th century already. The, the, the Superior House. and government governments and mps and, prime ministers

13:41 - and so on needed to get good candidates into the, into the House of Commons. 'cause that's where the real power lay. And so they had, because they had no mechanism that would really work. It couldn't just, we don't now do, we, we we only have by elections when an MP has died or whatever. You don't usually have people just floating around saying, perhaps I'll, perhaps I'll stand for Parliament. It doesn't happen like that.

14:11 - and so the mechanism has to be put in place, as they did in order to make sure that you, you had a working majority in the House of Commons. And that also included that you had a good number of, of reliable cabinet ministers, hence the John h Ho houses, to position that they, the, the government like out Melbourne wanted him in the cabinet, in, and he had to find a way of getting him there. That was the basic ethos. You need a cabinet, which is strong,

14:45 - and if that means a bit of Jiggery pokery, then so be it.

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