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Jessica Roda debunks the stereotypes of ultra-Orthodox religious women, arguing that access to technology has transformed their expression of religious beliefs.

Image courtesy of interviewee. February 6, 2024

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This video video discusses the representation of Orthodox women in media, particularly focusing on the negative portrayal seen on platforms like Netflix. It highlights how these women are often depicted as lacking creativity and agency. The author, who conducted ethnographic research, aims to present a more nuanced understanding of the lives of Orthodox women, both within their communities and after they have left. This video video research reveals a complex interplay between religiosity and secularism, showcasing the connections between different spaces and artistic expressions.

The author introduces the concept of "cyber feminism," which encompasses how women in Orthodox communities utilize social media for feminist activism, often in modest ways. They create platforms to express their voices while adhering to cultural norms. Examples of women musicians and artists illustrate the diverse ways they navigate their identities, push boundaries, and challenge societal expectations within their communities through art and technology.

This video video emphasizes the importance of visibility and representation, illustrating how these women, through their creative endeavors, challenge stereotypes and build communities of affinity that transcend traditional boundaries. It underscores the dynamic and evolving nature of artistic expression in Orthodox women's lives and advocates for a recognition of the vital role of art in shaping their narratives. The author concludes by stressing that the experiences of Orthodox women cannot be portrayed simply in black and white terms, but rather reflect a rich tapestry of voices and stories.

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X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

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The covering, media covering of Orthodox women lately,

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especially on Netflix and different,

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I would say streaming platform has been very negative,

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about how they talk about those women.

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And one of the most important one was that actually

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during the pandemic, the doc, not the documentary,

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but the mini theory and ministry in Orthodox,

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and actually during this disparity was also in light,

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you know, exposing this woman as not being creative, as,

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not having any agency.

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And, and I did my ethnography

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and I discovered a completely different world, both

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for the women who lived inside,

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but also the women who have left this universe,

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because also the way women were portrayed when they left,

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it was always, they were always presented as par,

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you know, and, either as mother or baby machine.

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And I wanted to present a different,

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a different image of this world, right?

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And because this is also what I discovered.

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Um, so that was at the center of, of my book.

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And the other, I think, important element is,

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to underline how, you know, this universe of people

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who are inside and outside

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and at the margin are also intertwined.

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Um, because, you know, there is this tendency also

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to think about religiosity

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and secularism as completely separated.

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And my, in my book, you know,

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there's a graduation from the most conservative space

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to the, the liberal one.

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And I really show how, in certain cases,

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artists are connected, also through different,

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different forms and creating alternative, markets.

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And also for the artists who left that they are struggling,

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with, with the expectations of the industry,

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of the, the film industry.

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So I would say that's, you know, to,

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to reshape the narrative, from inside and outside,

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and to give a certain visibility to an invisible world.

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This type of project, or I would say any kind

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of ethnography, takes a lot of trust and time.

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So it all started in 2015, when I was in Montreal.

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And I, I connected with people who left initially,

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and I was participating in helping, the development

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of our organization in Montreal to help people

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who were in between world.

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And that's how everything started.

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And a lot through this, this, this community of people

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who left, I've met a lot of artists and,

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and progressively I connected also to the universe of people

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who were in between and also to families.

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Um, and I studied to teach piano, so to certain,

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girls in the community.

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I was a professor for a year in Montreal, for a program.

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So, I taught social anthropology, to a group

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of Hasidic and ish women.

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It was, fascinating.

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And then, for the artists,

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I also collaborated with some of them.

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Um, some became my very dear friends.

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Um, so friendship is also kind of a, I would say part

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of the, the, the methodology or the,

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and reflexive,

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approach also towards this, this question.

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Uh, how do we do ethnography?

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Um, you know, I participated in a film shooting,

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so different, different types of really involvement,

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into, you know, it depends of course with which artists,

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but has been a, a personal involvement of my,

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my mind and my body.

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Also thinking about the displacement

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between different spaces,

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because when you go to spaces where people left

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and then you enter, you know, spaces

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where people are completely in the community, you know, just

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to give you an example, in Brooklyn, you have a, a play,

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a kind of a Broadway just for women

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and girls only, Hasidic and girls.

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And you, you know, it's a very different universe than going

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to, the Toronto Film Festival,

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to celebrate some artists.

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So, you know, this, this kind of movement

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and intersection between, different universe

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and immersion as well.

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Cyber feminism, has been developed in media studies.

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Um, I'm drawing from, the work of, one

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of my colleague, soya,

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but Mochi, who's professor at University of Oslo.

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Um, and, in this literature, this is the idea

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of women using social media for feminist purposes.

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Um, and my, my colleague, professor

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Alchie, she worked in Iran.

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Uh, and you have other works on this, this phenomenon.

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So I was really inspired by this, this work on

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how music, how women are using social media

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to make transformation and for activists purposes.

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But what was also very interesting in the, in the universe

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that I work with is that the specificity

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of using social media for them, it was also

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to show their faces, their voices,

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and to create a kind of a,

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sometimes a modest public platform.

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So it was a very unique, understanding of, you know,

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act feminist activism.

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If I think about the work of Adina Sash, for instance,

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the Flatbush girl that I, I I,

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I wrote about in this chapter,

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and you have this, this women who are advocating for,

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the visibility of women in a modest way.

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So that's why I thought that the context, the,

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the term cyber feminism was, was not, I wanted

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to make a little bit my, my own.

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And, and I play with the, with the term froom,

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because froom means in Yiddish, observance.

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So that's, that's, that's the, this idea.

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They use it a lot, to define so that when I say they,

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I'm talking about women artists in the

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community from female artists.

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So that's how they define,

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Um, FFA.

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And I thought it would be interesting

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to play with that term.

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Um, so that's why I developed this concept of,

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the cyber fism.

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And I, I developed this,

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and I explain how they're doing that through also different,

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understanding and, expression of feminism,

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because there's a lot of different variety,

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and some women will not even use the term feminism.

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Um, so that's kind of my, my, my, my conceptualization

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of what I observed doing, ethnography online.

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Very interesting example.

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During the pandemic,

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the composer new house composed a song called a, a Jew.

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That was, that's the title, in English, the Translation.

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And, she composed it,

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and it was a male who sang it initially, Benny Friedman.

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He's a, a Hasidic, singer.

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But what was very interesting is that,

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usually when you had a woman who were composers,

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you didn't have their name at the forefront.

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And if you watch this music video, you will see

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that it's written composed by Halan Newhouse.

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There's a celebration of Halan Newhouse.

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And Halan Newhouse is also a singer.

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She's also present on social media.

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She has a recording studio.

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She was a very famous, celebrity in the community,

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but you will never see her face,

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you will never hear her voice on social media.

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So she used the voice in this case, of a male celebrity

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following that moment.

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Um, I mean, for several months

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after that, other women from female artists were so singer

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and friends with Al in your house as well,

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who have a different perspective on

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how they want to be visible.

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And for instance, those women will show their face

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and their voices on YouTube,

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but they will label it for women

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and girls only, to make sure

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that they advertise if a male is a man is watching

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or wants to listen to their voice.

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Because in, in, Jewish law,

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this is not only the problem of exposing your, your face,

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but this is also exposing your voice, the concept of kisha

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that is extremely problematic,

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for the most conservative orthodox, communities.

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But those women are creating, thanks to the digital

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in new ways of expressing their, their, their artistic,

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their creativity.

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And, and that's a great example.

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I think I'm taking this one

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because it shows different ways of having publicity.

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So Hanu has, has some publicity

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by using the voice also of a male.

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And, you know, it's written, composed by Hanu has,

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and it's, it has, it's a very, very famous song now.

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All the men, boys will sing it, and also women.

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So she composes, she has a certain visibility

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and another woman who agree, who said, look, for us,

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we wanna sing it. We wanna have

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Our faith. We want

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to have our, you know, voices on YouTube.

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So they did some cover of this book,

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and several women did it.

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Um, so that's a very, I I'm taking this example just

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to show, how this universe is pushing us

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to rethink religiosity, women's religiosity

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and, and the concept of publicity, of make,

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what exactly today in the digital is public

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and what is private.

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And in this case, we are in

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and in between, it's some, I call it a modest,

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a modest public space.

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There are artists, so it's always this

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idea that they are marginal.

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So, you know, when you

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or you know, there's a certain romantic aspect,

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you're working on the art, you know, the, the,

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this is something that people do not ne necessarily care.

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Um, and my argument is that, to looking at

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or by looking at artists who may be considered as marginals,

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you know, it's not like every single,

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I would say family from family

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or orthodox family will want, you know, their daughter

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to become celebrity.

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There is there, there is, there are many other expectations.

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Um, or also when you leave the community, if you want

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to be an artist, it's also extremely, extremely difficult

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because you have to enter a market that is different than,

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you know, the universe you grew up with.

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But by investing, universe, I just realized

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how much this community, when I say these communities,

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the firm one, but also our own community,

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we consume so much entertainment.

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You know, music is everywhere you go to any event,

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you will have images, you will have sound,

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you will have those, those, especially in,

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in the North American context

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and the development of this community,

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where you have the middle class

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and portrait, middle class, you go to weddings, any kind

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of events, and this is an increased demand.

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So even if it's, you know, we say it's marginal,

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but it's growing.

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And by, you know, those women presenting different images

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about what you can be as a woman,

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what you can do as a woman, is, is completely,

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infiltrating in, in a very, you know, sub talent

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and fine manner also of what is what, what is

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what is possible in terms of, modesty, in terms

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of fashion, in terms of the look

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that you can have different types of role model.

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And I would say also for the artist who left, you know,

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when I'm taking this, this, this example of,

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Malki Goldman who, is navigating also between both,

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she's still teaching in the community.

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So this ability of the arts to make changes,

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but with that saying, it's political right away, you know,

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by using the arts as the center, as the starting point,

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and then progressively bringing other types

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of ideas to make changes.

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So I'm just taking, going back to Marky Goldman,

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when she teaches also painting, to, from women, she's,

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so, she's, actress outside, but she's also teaches art.

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So she's, allowing some of her students

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also to go into artistic directions that they wouldn't go,

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to think about abstract art, to think outside the box,

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and through this expression, thinking outside the box

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through the arts, this is something that they can, you know,

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potentially think along in their everyday life.

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Um, I can take the example also of dance classes.

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Um, one of a, a woman that I know that teaches,

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exercise or dance class to women,

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and she's introducing some movement,

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that would not necessarily be, you know, looked at

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as a kosher enough,

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but she's introducing them as, as something that is good

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for the body, for their health, for wellness.

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And she's also kind of, for her, it's a way for women

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to liberate their body.

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Uh, so you have to, through the arts,

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and inter integration of different concept, you,

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I mean those women are, are, are trying

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to push the envelope.

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And this is, yeah, I would say this is my message also

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that, the arts matter, I would say,

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I was thinking about some similarity with the psycho,

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you know, any kind of society,

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you always have individuals pushing, the envelope

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and any kind of society is dynamic, you know, is changing.

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Um, for me, you know,

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because I also traced the development

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of those, this art world.

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It's not something that is new.

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Um, you know, you had it in the early, I traced it

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through the early 20th century with education for,

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women, for girls only

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that developed into the orthodox world in,

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in, Eastern Europe.

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Um, what is different today is

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that they made it as a market.

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Um, so this is an industry, this is an economy.

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This is also a social, it's not only

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for educational purposes,

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but this is also for social purposes.

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Um, and, yeah, you always had some figures

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that were pushing, you know, the envelope.

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It's, it's what also the digital allowed, is allowing

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to, to, to do, to create a community that is,

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that exists beyond blood as well.

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This is something that I, you know,

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it's community of affinity.

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Those from female artists are not necessarily coming

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from the same neighborhood.

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Sometimes they con during pandemic, they connected online.

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Uh, they were not the same neighborhood,

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they were not in the same country, sometimes

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not living in the same countries,

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but they created this community of affinity, right?

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And it was not only based on, you know,

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I'm coming from the Satmar community

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And I will perform in my, for my community, even

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I'm describing that as well.

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But even the one who are doing

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that in their very local community, they are able to record,

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they are able to use the different technology to spread

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and to disseminate their work beyond their boundaries.

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So that's also the, the, the, the very unique moment,

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in this idea of pushing boundaries

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and creating different types of communities.

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When you think about a world that is unknown or secret

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or you know, that a lot of people will have curiosity in

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and criticism, you know, criticism, that for a lot

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of people it works also and they find different ways.

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Um, and you have different voices.

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It's not an homogenous universe.

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And the ability also to what exactly it means

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to be creative, what is, what exactly it means

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to use the arts, it's plural, even in those worlds.

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So, and,

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and to create, think about the different dialogues that are,

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that are possible also.

15:54.205 --> 15:57.905
Um, yeah, I would say that the,

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I call it rich and, and maybe also for the community itself,

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hopefully when they're gonna read that, if,

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if they do read the last chapter about artists who left,

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that they will also have a different perspective on

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what exactly and why do women leave

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and what they're able to do in their, their care

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as well still for their family, their universe.

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This is not a black and white universe.

00:00 - The covering, media covering of Orthodox women lately, especially on Netflix and different, I would say streaming platform has been very negative, about how they talk about those women. And one of the most important one was that actually during the pandemic, the doc, not the documentary,

00:18 - but the mini theory and ministry in Orthodox, and actually during this disparity was also in light, you know, exposing this woman as not being creative, as, not having any agency. And, and I did my ethnography and I discovered a completely different world, both for the women who lived inside, but also the women who have left this universe, because also the way women were portrayed when they left, it was always, they were always presented as par,

00:51 - you know, and, either as mother or baby machine. And I wanted to present a different, a different image of this world, right? And because this is also what I discovered. so that was at the center of, of my book. And the other, I think, important element is, to underline how, you know, this universe of people who are inside and outside and at the margin are also intertwined. because, you know, there is this tendency also

01:23 - to think about religiosity and secularism as completely separated. And my, in my book, you know, there's a graduation from the most conservative space to the, the liberal one. And I really show how, in certain cases, artists are connected, also through different, different forms and creating alternative, markets. And also for the artists who left that they are struggling, with, with the expectations of the industry,

01:52 - of the, the film industry. So I would say that's, you know, to, to reshape the narrative, from inside and outside, and to give a certain visibility to an invisible world. This type of project, or I would say any kind of ethnography, takes a lot of trust and time. So it all started in 2015, when I was in Montreal. And I, I connected with people who left initially, and I was participating in helping, the development of our organization in Montreal to help people

02:22 - who were in between world. And that's how everything started. And a lot through this, this, this community of people who left, I've met a lot of artists and, and progressively I connected also to the universe of people who were in between and also to families. and I studied to teach piano, so to certain, girls in the community. I was a professor for a year in Montreal, for a program. So, I taught social anthropology, to a group

02:52 - of Hasidic and ish women. It was, fascinating. And then, for the artists, I also collaborated with some of them. some became my very dear friends. so friendship is also kind of a, I would say part of the, the, the methodology or the, and reflexive, approach also towards this, this question. how do we do ethnography?

03:15 - you know, I participated in a film shooting, so different, different types of really involvement, into, you know, it depends of course with which artists, but has been a, a personal involvement of my, my mind and my body. Also thinking about the displacement between different spaces, because when you go to spaces where people left and then you enter, you know, spaces where people are completely in the community, you know, just

03:45 - to give you an example, in Brooklyn, you have a, a play, a kind of a Broadway just for women and girls only, Hasidic and girls. And you, you know, it's a very different universe than going to, the Toronto Film Festival, to celebrate some artists. So, you know, this, this kind of movement and intersection between, different universe and immersion as well. Cyber feminism, has been developed in media studies.

04:14 - I'm drawing from, the work of, one of my colleague, soya, but Mochi, who's professor at University of Oslo. and, in this literature, this is the idea of women using social media for feminist purposes. and my, my colleague, professor Alchie, she worked in Iran. and you have other works on this, this phenomenon. So I was really inspired by this, this work on how music, how women are using social media

04:45 - to make transformation and for activists purposes. But what was also very interesting in the, in the universe that I work with is that the specificity of using social media for them, it was also to show their faces, their voices, and to create a kind of a, sometimes a modest public platform. So it was a very unique, understanding of, you know, act feminist activism. If I think about the work of Adina Sash, for instance,

05:14 - the Flatbush girl that I, I I, I wrote about in this chapter, and you have this, this women who are advocating for, the visibility of women in a modest way. So that's why I thought that the context, the, the term cyber feminism was, was not, I wanted to make a little bit my, my own. And, and I play with the, with the term froom, because froom means in Yiddish, observance. So that's, that's, that's the, this idea.

05:47 - They use it a lot, to define so that when I say they, I'm talking about women artists in the community from female artists. So that's how they define, FFA. And I thought it would be interesting to play with that term. so that's why I developed this concept of, the cyber fism. And I, I developed this,

06:09 - and I explain how they're doing that through also different, understanding and, expression of feminism, because there's a lot of different variety, and some women will not even use the term feminism. so that's kind of my, my, my, my conceptualization of what I observed doing, ethnography online. Very interesting example. During the pandemic, the composer new house composed a song called a, a Jew. That was, that's the title, in English, the Translation.

06:41 - And, she composed it, and it was a male who sang it initially, Benny Friedman. He's a, a Hasidic, singer. But what was very interesting is that, usually when you had a woman who were composers, you didn't have their name at the forefront. And if you watch this music video, you will see that it's written composed by Halan Newhouse. There's a celebration of Halan Newhouse. And Halan Newhouse is also a singer.

07:10 - She's also present on social media. She has a recording studio. She was a very famous, celebrity in the community, but you will never see her face, you will never hear her voice on social media. So she used the voice in this case, of a male celebrity following that moment. I mean, for several months after that, other women from female artists were so singer and friends with Al in your house as well,

07:37 - who have a different perspective on how they want to be visible. And for instance, those women will show their face and their voices on YouTube, but they will label it for women and girls only, to make sure that they advertise if a male is a man is watching or wants to listen to their voice. Because in, in, Jewish law, this is not only the problem of exposing your, your face,

08:05 - but this is also exposing your voice, the concept of kisha that is extremely problematic, for the most conservative orthodox, communities. But those women are creating, thanks to the digital in new ways of expressing their, their, their artistic, their creativity. And, and that's a great example. I think I'm taking this one because it shows different ways of having publicity. So Hanu has, has some publicity

08:34 - by using the voice also of a male. And, you know, it's written, composed by Hanu has, and it's, it has, it's a very, very famous song now. All the men, boys will sing it, and also women. So she composes, she has a certain visibility and another woman who agree, who said, look, for us, we wanna sing it. We wanna have Our faith. We want to have our, you know, voices on YouTube. So they did some cover of this book,

09:01 - and several women did it. so that's a very, I I'm taking this example just to show, how this universe is pushing us to rethink religiosity, women's religiosity and, and the concept of publicity, of make, what exactly today in the digital is public and what is private. And in this case, we are in and in between, it's some, I call it a modest, a modest public space.

09:29 - There are artists, so it's always this idea that they are marginal. So, you know, when you or you know, there's a certain romantic aspect, you're working on the art, you know, the, the, this is something that people do not ne necessarily care. and my argument is that, to looking at or by looking at artists who may be considered as marginals, you know, it's not like every single, I would say family from family

09:59 - or orthodox family will want, you know, their daughter to become celebrity. There is there, there is, there are many other expectations. or also when you leave the community, if you want to be an artist, it's also extremely, extremely difficult because you have to enter a market that is different than, you know, the universe you grew up with. But by investing, universe, I just realized how much this community, when I say these communities, the firm one, but also our own community,

10:30 - we consume so much entertainment. You know, music is everywhere you go to any event, you will have images, you will have sound, you will have those, those, especially in, in the North American context and the development of this community, where you have the middle class and portrait, middle class, you go to weddings, any kind of events, and this is an increased demand. So even if it's, you know, we say it's marginal,

10:56 - but it's growing. And by, you know, those women presenting different images about what you can be as a woman, what you can do as a woman, is, is completely, infiltrating in, in a very, you know, sub talent and fine manner also of what is what, what is what is possible in terms of, modesty, in terms of fashion, in terms of the look that you can have different types of role model. And I would say also for the artist who left, you know,

11:33 - when I'm taking this, this, this example of, Malki Goldman who, is navigating also between both, she's still teaching in the community. So this ability of the arts to make changes, but with that saying, it's political right away, you know, by using the arts as the center, as the starting point, and then progressively bringing other types of ideas to make changes. So I'm just taking, going back to Marky Goldman, when she teaches also painting, to, from women, she's,

12:05 - so, she's, actress outside, but she's also teaches art. So she's, allowing some of her students also to go into artistic directions that they wouldn't go, to think about abstract art, to think outside the box, and through this expression, thinking outside the box through the arts, this is something that they can, you know, potentially think along in their everyday life. I can take the example also of dance classes. one of a, a woman that I know that teaches, exercise or dance class to women,

12:44 - and she's introducing some movement, that would not necessarily be, you know, looked at as a kosher enough, but she's introducing them as, as something that is good for the body, for their health, for wellness. And she's also kind of, for her, it's a way for women to liberate their body. so you have to, through the arts, and inter integration of different concept, you, I mean those women are, are, are trying

13:13 - to push the envelope. And this is, yeah, I would say this is my message also that, the arts matter, I would say, I was thinking about some similarity with the psycho, you know, any kind of society, you always have individuals pushing, the envelope and any kind of society is dynamic, you know, is changing. for me, you know, because I also traced the development of those, this art world.

13:37 - It's not something that is new. you know, you had it in the early, I traced it through the early 20th century with education for, women, for girls only that developed into the orthodox world in, in, Eastern Europe. what is different today is that they made it as a market. so this is an industry, this is an economy. This is also a social, it's not only

14:04 - for educational purposes, but this is also for social purposes. and, yeah, you always had some figures that were pushing, you know, the envelope. It's, it's what also the digital allowed, is allowing to, to, to do, to create a community that is, that exists beyond blood as well. This is something that I, you know, it's community of affinity. Those from female artists are not necessarily coming

14:30 - from the same neighborhood. Sometimes they con during pandemic, they connected online. they were not the same neighborhood, they were not in the same country, sometimes not living in the same countries, but they created this community of affinity, right? And it was not only based on, you know, I'm coming from the Satmar community And I will perform in my, for my community, even I'm describing that as well.

14:55 - But even the one who are doing that in their very local community, they are able to record, they are able to use the different technology to spread and to disseminate their work beyond their boundaries. So that's also the, the, the, the very unique moment, in this idea of pushing boundaries and creating different types of communities. When you think about a world that is unknown or secret or you know, that a lot of people will have curiosity in and criticism, you know, criticism, that for a lot

15:26 - of people it works also and they find different ways. and you have different voices. It's not an homogenous universe. And the ability also to what exactly it means to be creative, what is, what exactly it means to use the arts, it's plural, even in those worlds. So, and, and to create, think about the different dialogues that are, that are possible also. yeah, I would say that the,

15:58 - I call it rich and, and maybe also for the community itself, hopefully when they're gonna read that, if, if they do read the last chapter about artists who left, that they will also have a different perspective on what exactly and why do women leave and what they're able to do in their, their care as well still for their family, their universe. This is not a black and white universe.

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