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View the page of James E. Cronin

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James E. Cronin provides the context necessary to understand such diverse challenges as the triumph of Brexit, the election of Trump, the rise of populism, and the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Image courtesy of interviewee. March 12, 2024

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This video video outlines insights from an author discussing their book on the liberal international order, initially drafted in 2020 but later revised due to significant global events, particularly Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The author reflects on the definition and construction of liberal order, noting that it was not inevitable and has become endangered.

A significant addition was included in the book regarding the consequences of the invasion, which prompted the author to reconsider how to present the topic. They emphasize that today's conflict in Ukraine and past remarks by leaders like Donald Trump have highlighted vulnerabilities within the liberal order.

The book does not draw solely from original archival research but synthesizes existing knowledge from the author's extensive experience. Amid challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic, the author relied on accessible online resources and open libraries for research.

The author distinguishes between liberalism as a domestic political practice and the wider liberal order, noting their interconnection through historical developments following World War II. They argue that the Cold War shaped the stability of the liberal order, which was characterized by a political consensus against fascism and communism uniting center-left and center-right parties.

However, this stability began to erode in the late 20th century due to economic shifts that led to neoliberal policies causing increased inequality and disenchantment with political arrangements. The post-Cold War era saw new challenges, including the weak integration of former Soviet states into the liberal order.

The author emphasizes the fragility of the current liberal order, affected by neoliberal policies, polarization, and the rise of populist movements; they argue for the need to restore a strong political center. This video video concludes with the notion that countering the rise of the populist right is essential for rebuilding support for liberal democracy, suggesting that the internal contradictions within these populist movements may provide opportunities for critique and opposition.

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Here are five key points from the video:

1. **Reassessment of Liberal Order**: The author reflects on how the liberal international order was constructed and emphasizes that it was not inevitable. The 2020 introduction to the book was revised to highlight the significance of Russia's invasion of Ukraine as a critical moment revealing the vulnerabilities of this order.

2. **Convideo of Research**: The book was primarily a synthesis and interpretation rather than original archival research due to the COVID-19 pandemic, which limited traditional academic activities like travel and access to archives. Despite these constraints, the author utilized existing knowledge and resources, including a responsive library and internet access, to complete the book.

3. **Post-War Political Dynamics**: The author discusses how the end of the Cold War and economic changes in the 1970s led to shifts in political stability and policy direction. The rise of neoliberalism resulted in increased inequality and dissatisfaction with political arrangements, contributing to contemporary instability in liberal democracies.

4. **Impact of the Cold War**: The liberal international order was initially defined in opposition to fascism and communism, with political parties uniting against these threats. However, the author notes that the end of the Cold War weakened the political center, allowing more extreme right-wing ideas to gain traction.

5. **Contemporary Challenges and the Future of Liberal Democracy**: The video concludes that the liberal order is fragile and more vulnerable than since its inception. It emphasizes the need for a strong political center to counter the rise of populism and right-wing movements, suggesting that successful resistance will require significant political effort and coherent alternatives to current populist ideologies.

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Here are some key quotes extracted from the video you :

1. **On the Liberal Order**:
- "Instead of describing in an academic way... the liberal international order, I should have been able to simply say... it's not this, it's not what Putin has done. That is the opposite of what liberal order... means."

2. **On the Effects of Ukraine War**:
- "As I wrote that little addendum... I realized what I should have done in the introduction."

3. **On Research Methodology**:
- "This book was mostly a matter of synthesis and interpretation... it deals with liberal order over a wide area in the world and over a long time."

4. **On Covid's Impact**:
- "This is very much a Covid book... travel to archives, visits to libraries... was shut down or impossible during Covid."

5. **On Liberalism vs. Liberal Order**:
- "Liberalism and the post-war liberal order are not the same... one can look for example, at the fact that the international order a more or less secure convideo within which liberal institutions and politics could thrive."

6. **On the Cold War**:
- "In fact, in the book I refer to Liberal order as a Cold War liberal order... the Soviet threat had a very big impact on what went on within that section of the world."

7. **On Polarization**:
- "The weakening of liberal democratic order and politics within countries would have a lot to do with... the changing media environment... which made it the decline of traditional newspapers."

8. **On Political Center Weakening**:
- "What it did most clearly... was that it severed the link between the political center and the right."

9. **On Neoliberalism**:
- "The shift was toward the right, toward what people called market fundamentalism... ultimately led to increased inequality."

10. **On the Future of Liberal Democracy**:
- "Essential to the success and flourishing of liberal order... was a strong political center."

11. **On the Populist Right**:
- "Our best ally... might well be the populist right itself beset, as it is by incoherence and often transparent corruption."

These quotes capture the underlying themes of the discussion surrounding liberalism, international order, and the complexities brought about by recent global events such as the Ukraine war and the COVID-19 pandemic.

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Here are some similar articles that discuss themes related to the liberal international order, the effects of global events such as Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and the challenges posed by populism and neoliberalism:

1. **"The Liberal International Order: Historical Origins and Future Prospects"**
- This article examines the historical convideo of the liberal international order, its development post-World War II, and the challenges it faces in the 21st century, including the impact of recent geopolitical events.

2. **"Populism and the Crisis of the Liberal Order"**
- This piece analyzes how populist movements across the globe challenge the established liberal order, discussing case studies from various countries and the implications for democratic governance.

3. **"The Impact of Neoliberalism on Global Politics: A Critical Analysis"**
- This article delves into the effects of neoliberal economic policies on political structures and social inequality, linking these factors to the rise of discontent and populist movements in contemporary politics.

4. **"Ukraine's Role in Reimagining the Liberal Order"**
- Focusing specifically on the Ukraine conflict, this article explores how the war has prompted a reassessment of the liberal order, discussing its implications for international relations and security policies.

5. **"Rebuilding the Liberal Center: Strategies for Countering Populism"**
- This article offers strategies for political leaders and parties aiming to strengthen the center-left and center-right alliance to combat the rise of populism and safeguard democratic ideals.

6. **"The Fragility of the Liberal Order: Lessons from History"**
- This analysis reflects on historical instances when the liberal order faced threats, drawing parallels to current challenges and suggesting ways to reinforce democratic frameworks.

7. **"Inequality, Disenchantment, and the Future of Democracy"**
- This piece discusses the links between rising economic inequality, populism, and the weakening of democratic institutions, advocating for reforms to restore public trust and political stability.

These articles collectively address the intertwining issues of political theory, international relations, economic policy, and the contemporary challenges that threaten the liberal international order.

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

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I wanna refer to begin to the introduction in my book,

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because that was written in 2020 first

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drafted, to explain, what liberal order was

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and was not, how it was constructed and was not inevitable,

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and why it was endangered.

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Now, as the book was about to go to press

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a couple years later, Russia invaded Ukraine.

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Uh, that's why there's actually an addition to the book.

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Right at the beginning. It's a note

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to readers about the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

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As I wrote that little addendum, I realized

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what I should have done in the introduction.

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Instead of describing in an academic way, you know, in a,

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in, in a historical way,

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the liberal international order, I should have been able

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to simply say, if I'd written it in 2020,

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I'd have simply said, it's not this, it's not

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what Putin has done.

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That is the opposite of what liberal order, means.

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Bodies prescribes, recommends

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and to some extent in the past has, has helped to achieve.

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Uh, now, today, if I were writing the introduction again,

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or introducing the book again,

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I would point once again to the ongoing war in Ukraine,

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but I'd also point to the, frankly,

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represent Hebel comments of Donald Trump about NATO

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and inviting Putin to invade,

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and the equally irresponsible behavior

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of Republicans in Congress responding

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to Trump's prompts fragile victory.

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The book we're discussing, is, is, is not a product

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of original archival research.

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Uh, I've done books of that sort for 40 years

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and published many of them and done much archival research.

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But, but this book, was mostly a matter of synthesis

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and interpretation, that

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flowed primarily from the nature of the topic.

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It deals with liberal order over a wide area in the world

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and over a long time.

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And, you know, original research to back

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that up just wasn't feasible.

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The second, unusual condition that shaped the writing

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of this book was Covid.

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This is very much a covid book,

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and what that meant was that, you know, travel to archives,

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visits to libraries,

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and other normal academic things you do, seminars,

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conferences, and so on.

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A lot of that was shut down or impossible during Covid.

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So, that sort of, that had that, that constrained

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what I could and couldn't do.

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Uh, during the writing of the book.

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However, I have to say that my library, remained open

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and helpful throughout

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and got me books even when it was closed to people entering.

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Uh, and of course, the internet, kept working

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and allowed me access to a wide range of material, both

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books, articles, of a scholarly sort,

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and much more contemporaneous discussions.

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So I wouldn't recommend necessarily,

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this research strategy to a new graduate student.

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Um, but I would say this is

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what one does when one has these constraints.

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But also when you have, as I have, you know,

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a long career doing research

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and publishing, it sometimes is possible

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to use the cumulative wisdom that you've gained,

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to reflect and to analyze and to interpret.

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And that's what I try to do in this book.

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Liberalism and the post-war liberal order are not the same,

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weren't the same, you know, liberalism as,

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a political practice domestically is one thing,

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a liberal order is another.

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Um, what I would say,

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however, is that from the beginning, these two kind

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of liberalism, liberalism as a, as a practice

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of government and a and a liberal order, very much,

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came together and they complimented one another

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and were, in a sense, premised upon one another.

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One can look for example, at the fact that

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the international order provided a more

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or less secure context, more secure than before, than

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before its institution in the 1940s,

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within which liberal institutions

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and politics could thrive across the west and in Japan.

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And in addition, the fact

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that the most important power shaping that liberal order,

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the United States and Great Britain were liberal democracies

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with all their flaws that made them not as liberal

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as one would like, suggest the compatibility

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of the internal and external dimensions of, of liberalism

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and liberal order, setting up that international order

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required hard work and creative stateship statesmanship

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and the establishment

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of stable democratic regimes demanded continued attention

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adjustment and tweaking

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and effort on the part of

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mainly internal political actors in different countries,

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facilitating both the setting up of the overall framework

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of liberal order,

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and the allegiance of various countries to it.

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Um, and, the establishment of,

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liberal domestic political orders facilitating both

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was the Cold War and the Soviet threat.

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Uh, in fact, in

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The book I refer to Liberal order

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as a Cold War liberal order

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or a Cold War order,

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the Soviet threat, you know, however real or

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however exaggerated it might've appeared at any given

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moment, had a, had a very big impact on what went on within

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that section of the world that's strove to work

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as a liberal international order,

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and within the different countries that were part of it.

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Now, liberal democracy defined itself in the 1940s

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as it was being established, as the opposite of fascism

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from the 1950s.

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It was defined in opposition to the Soviet Union

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and all that that implied now in party terms,

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party political terms.

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The stability of the post-war order was produced

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by these contrasts between, you know, democracy,

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liberalism and fascism and democratic, democratic liberalism

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and the Soviet system.

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Um, and more concretely,

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the system was supported

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and sustained by the political dominance of the center left

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and the center, right center, left parties,

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center right parties,

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often social democratic parties on the left, Christian,

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democratic parties on the right,

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but other versions of center, left, center right parties.

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Basically, I would suggest that

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the political dominance of the center, left

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and center right parties happened in part

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because a shared antipathy dis communism brought the right

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and the left together toward the center,

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anchored them to the center.

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That will be the story up until the 1970s and beyond.

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After that, two big changes unsettled

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what was a fairly stable, not totally stable.

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There was lots of dissent and debate,

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but a relatively stable set of political regimes.

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The first was the ending

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of the long post-war economic boom in the 1970s.

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Uh, that boom had an in,

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in a sense underpinned political stability

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in much of the world.

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Uh, we could talk about the reasons for that,

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but I think it's fairly acknowledged that that boom came

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to an end in the seventies, was replaced by a different kind

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of economic regime in the 1980s.

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Now, basically, this transformation,

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or this shift in the nature of the economy

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produced a shift in policy.

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Uh, and the shift was toward the right, toward

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what people called market fundamentalism

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and others called neoliberalism.

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And these neoliberal policies, you know,

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and we can identify people who brought them, Thatcher,

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Reagan, and, and others in alliance,

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ultimately led to increased inequality,

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less generous social provision, and to the gradual,

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and then the much more rapid decline of older industries

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and the regions where they were located.

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Um, this is, you know, the phenomenon

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conjure up when people, we people use the phrase, you know,

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the left behind the long-term effect of these

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economic effects and social effects was a growing

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disenchantment with existing political arrangements,

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across the west.

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And that's one reason why the kinds of instability

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that we fret about today,

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transcends one or another country.

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Now, the second big event that happened

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after the 1970s, in fact, a decade or more

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after, was the end of the war.

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That meant that the liberal international order could expand

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hugely over a whole new set of areas, areas

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previously closed off from all of its workings.

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That, of course, would entail political

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and economic transitions in the former Soviet block.

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Neither political transition to democracy

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or economic transition to market economies is an easy thing

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to achieve and would be hard in any case.

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It's also hard for outsiders to, you know, superintendent

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and help such transitions along.

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But I would suggest that the neoliberal grip on policymaking

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and things like lending in the United States

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and in international economic institutions ensured

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that this process would be undertaken on the cheap, and

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therefore, because it was done on the cheap,

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not done well at all.

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Uh, which means that the, you know, the extension

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and expansion of a liberal world order of the 1990s was,

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you know, much more fragile than the establishment

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and extension of that order in the 1940s and fifties.

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Now,

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in terms of domestic politics, the end

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of the Cold War had other consequences.

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What it did most clearly, I would say, was

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that it severed the link

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between the political center and the right.

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In other words, it essentially weakened the center, right,

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the center right whole in political competition

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and in governance in liberal democracies.

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And that freed conservatives or people afraid

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Of, you know, losing wealth, power, money

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to move much more sharply to the right, they were able

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to embrace right wing ideas and movements

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and causes that had been anathema in most

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of the post-war era.

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Uh, and they did that in country

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after country, may maybe the earliest

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and, possibly clearest evidence came in America,

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and it would be supplied by the presidential candidate,

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Patrick Buchanan.

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Uh, when he told the Republican Convention in 1992

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that having won the Cold War, the time was right,

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the time was now to move on

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to the culture war on the home front.

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Now, I think that was a, a kind of a, a marker and,

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and, and a kind of call to action to, to, to, to,

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in a sense undermine the political stability

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that had been created

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and had been sustained all during the Cold War in the west

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and Western countries, and, and in,

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and at least indirectly in the international order.

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Uh, and these were the conditions that is the, the effects

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of Cold War neoliberalism, the, the, the weakening

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of the ties between the right

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and the center, hence the weakening of the center, right?

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Uh, that really set in motion the processes

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that have brought us where we are today.

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Now, as you know, I know there are many other things

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that went on in the intervening years.

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I mean, the most obvious thing is that,

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there are a whole set of new challenges

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confronting the world, the us the west,

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after 2000, you know, beginning with nine 11,

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going on to the, disastrous wars in,

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Iraq and Afghanistan, followed by the,

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great recession of 2007, 2008,

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and so on.

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Uh, all these things help to put to, to further challenge

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liberalism liberal order,

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both internationally and domestically.

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The weakening of liberal democratic order

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and politics within countries would have a lot to do,

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in addition to the kind of, well, to the,

14:29.045 --> 14:32.925
to the changing media environment, represented by,

14:33.145 --> 14:36.045
you know, talk radio, Fox News,

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and so on, which made it the decline of,

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traditional newspapers.

14:42.265 --> 14:45.085
You know, these things all contributed to polarization.

14:45.745 --> 14:47.685
Uh, but the big

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major underlying factors were the sort of loosening

14:51.090 --> 14:55.925
Up of the system, in the 1990s due to the combination

14:56.065 --> 14:59.765
of neoliberal triumph and the end of the Cold War.

14:59.905 --> 15:01.245
But the liberal order is fragile

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and probably more fragile today than in any time since its

15:05.845 --> 15:07.885
founding in the late 1940s.

15:08.705 --> 15:12.085
The second conclusion, relates

15:12.945 --> 15:17.205
and it's based on the fact that essential to the success

15:17.345 --> 15:20.485
and flourishing of liberal order,

15:20.585 --> 15:24.005
and liberal democracy, was a strong political center,

15:25.305 --> 15:28.605
that implies that protecting its future

15:28.785 --> 15:32.605
or restoring its, its its levels of support,

15:32.785 --> 15:35.125
is largely a matter of domestic politics,

15:35.865 --> 15:39.045
and more specifically, requires the defeat

15:39.145 --> 15:40.485
of the populist, right?

15:40.635 --> 15:43.805
That is to some extent on the rise,

15:43.945 --> 15:48.205
and certainly prevalent a across the democratic

15:48.265 --> 15:50.485
and not so democratic world today.

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Now, this mainly requires effort on the part of those

15:54.125 --> 15:58.325
who wish to defeat it, and to propose some, an alternative

15:58.625 --> 16:01.925
and alternatives and to reinforce or liberal alternatives.

16:02.545 --> 16:06.685
And in that struggle, which we're all in the middle of,

16:08.425 --> 16:13.125
our best ally, might well be the populist right itself

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beset, as it is by incoherence

16:17.625 --> 16:21.085
and often transparent corruption.

16:21.735 --> 16:23.165
There a contradiction in terms there

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between transparent and corruption.

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I'm not sure corruption's supposed to be hidden,

16:26.865 --> 16:29.925
but in this case, so much of it is, is not.

16:30.465 --> 16:33.965
Um, but nevertheless, as I suggested, taking advantage

16:33.985 --> 16:36.045
of the flaws and incoherence within

16:36.775 --> 16:40.125
right wing populism requires time, energy,

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and resources, which we have to find among ourselves.

00:00 - I wanna refer to begin to the introduction in my book, because that was written in 2020 first drafted, to explain, what liberal order was and was not, how it was constructed and was not inevitable, and why it was endangered. Now, as the book was about to go to press

00:24 - a couple years later, Russia invaded Ukraine. that's why there's actually an addition to the book. Right at the beginning. It's a note to readers about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. As I wrote that little addendum, I realized what I should have done in the introduction. Instead of describing in an academic way, you know, in a, in, in a historical way, the liberal international order, I should have been able to simply say, if I'd written it in 2020,

00:59 - I'd have simply said, it's not this, it's not what Putin has done. That is the opposite of what liberal order, means. Bodies prescribes, recommends and to some extent in the past has, has helped to achieve. now, today, if I were writing the introduction again, or introducing the book again, I would point once again to the ongoing war in Ukraine, but I'd also point to the, frankly, represent Hebel comments of Donald Trump about NATO

01:35 - and inviting Putin to invade, and the equally irresponsible behavior of Republicans in Congress responding to Trump's prompts fragile victory. The book we're discussing, is, is, is not a product of original archival research. I've done books of that sort for 40 years and published many of them and done much archival research. But, but this book, was mostly a matter of synthesis and interpretation, that

02:10 - flowed primarily from the nature of the topic. It deals with liberal order over a wide area in the world and over a long time. And, you know, original research to back that up just wasn't feasible. The second, unusual condition that shaped the writing of this book was Covid. This is very much a covid book, and what that meant was that, you know, travel to archives, visits to libraries,

02:39 - and other normal academic things you do, seminars, conferences, and so on. A lot of that was shut down or impossible during Covid. So, that sort of, that had that, that constrained what I could and couldn't do. during the writing of the book. However, I have to say that my library, remained open and helpful throughout and got me books even when it was closed to people entering. and of course, the internet, kept working

03:09 - and allowed me access to a wide range of material, both books, articles, of a scholarly sort, and much more contemporaneous discussions. So I wouldn't recommend necessarily, this research strategy to a new graduate student. but I would say this is what one does when one has these constraints. But also when you have, as I have, you know, a long career doing research and publishing, it sometimes is possible

03:43 - to use the cumulative wisdom that you've gained, to reflect and to analyze and to interpret. And that's what I try to do in this book. Liberalism and the post-war liberal order are not the same, weren't the same, you know, liberalism as, a political practice domestically is one thing, a liberal order is another. what I would say, however, is that from the beginning, these two kind of liberalism, liberalism as a, as a practice

04:16 - of government and a and a liberal order, very much, came together and they complimented one another and were, in a sense, premised upon one another. One can look for example, at the fact that the international order provided a more or less secure context, more secure than before, than before its institution in the 1940s, within which liberal institutions and politics could thrive across the west and in Japan. And in addition, the fact

04:51 - that the most important power shaping that liberal order, the United States and Great Britain were liberal democracies with all their flaws that made them not as liberal as one would like, suggest the compatibility of the internal and external dimensions of, of liberalism and liberal order, setting up that international order required hard work and creative stateship statesmanship and the establishment of stable democratic regimes demanded continued attention adjustment and tweaking

05:26 - and effort on the part of mainly internal political actors in different countries, facilitating both the setting up of the overall framework of liberal order, and the allegiance of various countries to it. and, the establishment of, liberal domestic political orders facilitating both was the Cold War and the Soviet threat. in fact, in The book I refer to Liberal order

05:59 - as a Cold War liberal order or a Cold War order, the Soviet threat, you know, however real or however exaggerated it might've appeared at any given moment, had a, had a very big impact on what went on within that section of the world that's strove to work as a liberal international order, and within the different countries that were part of it. Now, liberal democracy defined itself in the 1940s as it was being established, as the opposite of fascism

06:33 - from the 1950s. It was defined in opposition to the Soviet Union and all that that implied now in party terms, party political terms. The stability of the post-war order was produced by these contrasts between, you know, democracy, liberalism and fascism and democratic, democratic liberalism and the Soviet system. and more concretely, the system was supported

07:07 - and sustained by the political dominance of the center left and the center, right center, left parties, center right parties, often social democratic parties on the left, Christian, democratic parties on the right, but other versions of center, left, center right parties. Basically, I would suggest that the political dominance of the center, left and center right parties happened in part because a shared antipathy dis communism brought the right

07:41 - and the left together toward the center, anchored them to the center. That will be the story up until the 1970s and beyond. After that, two big changes unsettled what was a fairly stable, not totally stable. There was lots of dissent and debate, but a relatively stable set of political regimes. The first was the ending of the long post-war economic boom in the 1970s. that boom had an in,

08:11 - in a sense underpinned political stability in much of the world. we could talk about the reasons for that, but I think it's fairly acknowledged that that boom came to an end in the seventies, was replaced by a different kind of economic regime in the 1980s. Now, basically, this transformation, or this shift in the nature of the economy produced a shift in policy. and the shift was toward the right, toward

08:41 - what people called market fundamentalism and others called neoliberalism. And these neoliberal policies, you know, and we can identify people who brought them, Thatcher, Reagan, and, and others in alliance, ultimately led to increased inequality, less generous social provision, and to the gradual, and then the much more rapid decline of older industries and the regions where they were located. this is, you know, the phenomenon

09:16 - conjure up when people, we people use the phrase, you know, the left behind the long-term effect of these economic effects and social effects was a growing disenchantment with existing political arrangements, across the west. And that's one reason why the kinds of instability that we fret about today, transcends one or another country. Now, the second big event that happened after the 1970s, in fact, a decade or more

09:47 - after, was the end of the war. That meant that the liberal international order could expand hugely over a whole new set of areas, areas previously closed off from all of its workings. That, of course, would entail political and economic transitions in the former Soviet block. Neither political transition to democracy or economic transition to market economies is an easy thing to achieve and would be hard in any case. It's also hard for outsiders to, you know, superintendent

10:28 - and help such transitions along. But I would suggest that the neoliberal grip on policymaking and things like lending in the United States and in international economic institutions ensured that this process would be undertaken on the cheap, and therefore, because it was done on the cheap, not done well at all. which means that the, you know, the extension and expansion of a liberal world order of the 1990s was, you know, much more fragile than the establishment

11:04 - and extension of that order in the 1940s and fifties. Now, in terms of domestic politics, the end of the Cold War had other consequences. What it did most clearly, I would say, was that it severed the link between the political center and the right. In other words, it essentially weakened the center, right, the center right whole in political competition and in governance in liberal democracies.

11:48 - And that freed conservatives or people afraid Of, you know, losing wealth, power, money to move much more sharply to the right, they were able to embrace right wing ideas and movements and causes that had been anathema in most of the post-war era. and they did that in country after country, may maybe the earliest and, possibly clearest evidence came in America, and it would be supplied by the presidential candidate,

12:22 - Patrick Buchanan. when he told the Republican Convention in 1992 that having won the Cold War, the time was right, the time was now to move on to the culture war on the home front. Now, I think that was a, a kind of a, a marker and, and, and a kind of call to action to, to, to, to, in a sense undermine the political stability that had been created and had been sustained all during the Cold War in the west

12:56 - and Western countries, and, and in, and at least indirectly in the international order. and these were the conditions that is the, the effects of Cold War neoliberalism, the, the, the weakening of the ties between the right and the center, hence the weakening of the center, right? that really set in motion the processes that have brought us where we are today. Now, as you know, I know there are many other things that went on in the intervening years.

13:31 - I mean, the most obvious thing is that, there are a whole set of new challenges confronting the world, the us the west, after 2000, you know, beginning with nine 11, going on to the, disastrous wars in, Iraq and Afghanistan, followed by the, great recession of 2007, 2008, and so on. all these things help to put to, to further challenge liberalism liberal order,

14:13 - both internationally and domestically. The weakening of liberal democratic order and politics within countries would have a lot to do, in addition to the kind of, well, to the, to the changing media environment, represented by, you know, talk radio, Fox News, and so on, which made it the decline of, traditional newspapers. You know, these things all contributed to polarization. but the big

14:48 - major underlying factors were the sort of loosening Up of the system, in the 1990s due to the combination of neoliberal triumph and the end of the Cold War. But the liberal order is fragile and probably more fragile today than in any time since its founding in the late 1940s. The second conclusion, relates and it's based on the fact that essential to the success and flourishing of liberal order, and liberal democracy, was a strong political center,

15:25 - that implies that protecting its future or restoring its, its its levels of support, is largely a matter of domestic politics, and more specifically, requires the defeat of the populist, right? That is to some extent on the rise, and certainly prevalent a across the democratic and not so democratic world today. Now, this mainly requires effort on the part of those who wish to defeat it, and to propose some, an alternative

15:58 - and alternatives and to reinforce or liberal alternatives. And in that struggle, which we're all in the middle of, our best ally, might well be the populist right itself beset, as it is by incoherence and often transparent corruption. There a contradiction in terms there between transparent and corruption. I'm not sure corruption's supposed to be hidden, but in this case, so much of it is, is not. but nevertheless, as I suggested, taking advantage

16:33 - of the flaws and incoherence within right wing populism requires time, energy, and resources, which we have to find among ourselves.

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