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International Human Rights Law and Destitution

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Luke Graham explores destitution from the perspective of international human rights law and, more specifically, economic, social, and cultural rights.

Image courtesy of interviewee. August 27, 2024

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This video summarizes a discussion about a book based on a PhD project focusing on the issue of destitution in British society. The author explains that the motivation for the book stems from a rising interest in destitution, defined as an extreme form of poverty crucial for survival, particularly in the context of social transfers.

This video outlines two main factors that motivated the research: the increase in poverty and destitution in the UK and the ineffectiveness of the existing legal framework, which does not adequately address destitution or provide a legal right to be free from it. The author advocates for an exploration of economic, social, and cultural rights as potential mechanisms to address destitution, emphasizing the link between the realization of these rights and survival needs.

The book presents a new definition of destitution, consisting of two components: the rights that include basic survival necessities (food, clothing, housing, water, sanitation) and a defined "destitution threshold." Importantly, the text argues that if individuals must rely on charity for these components, they are deemed destitute.

The author critiques UK austerity measures, arguing that they have fostered a reliance on charity rather than state provision, and thus contributed to increased levels of destitution. The proposed solutions emphasize strengthening the state’s role in providing a social safety net to ensure that economic, social, and cultural rights are met without reliance on charity.

In conclusion, the book stresses the need to reshape social security in a way that prioritizes human rights to combat destitution effectively while simultaneously contributing to the broader realization of these economic and social rights in society.

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This book really stemmed from my PhD project,

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and so to speak about where the book came from

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and its motivations I have to speak about

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what motivated the PhD.

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And I'll start off by saying that firstly, one

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of the key things when I started there

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to look towards doing a PhD was that across society

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and across civil society, there was renewed interest

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and engagement with the idea

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of destitution in British society.

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And so this is a good point to explain

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how destitution has been understood.

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Traditionally, traditionally, it's been understood

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as an extreme form of poverty, which forces people

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to rely on social transfers to meet survival needs.

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So it's not just poverty, it's poverty, which relates

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to meeting survival needs, the absolute basic essentials

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that we need to survive.

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And the reason that there was growing interest in this,

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and the reason that this came to motivate the work was

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because we had a period of growing poverty

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and restitution in the United Kingdom.

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The second thing that really motivated the work was

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a recognition that the existing legal framework

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was not very effective

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and not very responsive to tackling destitution

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in particular human rights.

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So the European Convention

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of Human Rights does not contain a right

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to be free from poverty or destitution.

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There is also no such right contained in British

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domestic law on the statute book.

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And this meant

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that the law itself has not been very successful

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in tackling destitution.

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It means that people can be destitute

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and that can be lawful.

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And whilst there are some exceptions to this,

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the exceptions are quite narrow.

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They tend to focus on particular social groups

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on the vulnerability of those groups,

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and they may allow human rights based claims to succeed.

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And so I wanted to explore the potential of economic,

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social, and cultural rights,

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which are not contained in the European Convention

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of Human Rights to tackle destitution.

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And so the, these are the two factors, really.

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One that destitution was growing

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and two, that I wanted to look at an alternative way

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of understanding destitution

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and mobilizing human rights to, try and address

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and to reduce destitution.

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And the reason for choosing to focus on economic, social,

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and cultural rights is that it was very apparent

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to me from the outset,

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and it was very obvious that destitution correlates

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to the non-real of a range of these rights.

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And the reason for this, if I go back to

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the very brief definition of destitution

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that I gave at the outset, is

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that destitution has been very strongly linked to the idea

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of survival needs.

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And now survival needs such as food, housing,

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water, clothing, sanitation,

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these needs are contained in the international t on

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economic, social and cultural rights within Article 11,

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which I'll come to later.

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And because of that, I wanted to explore how this provision

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could be used to understand destitution,

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what the correlation between these, these two

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concepts were on the one hand destitution,

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and on the one hand, the I chest at International Covenant

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on economic, social and cultural rights.

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And destitution not been defined from this perspective

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before, nor had the link between

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this convention and this provision, and these rights

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and destitution been explored explicitly.

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And so really it was about mobilizing these rights against

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destitution to see

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how understanding destitution in these ways could allow us

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to tackle destitution number one,

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but also how foregrounding these rights

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in the fights against destitution might contribute

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to the greater realization of these rights as well.

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And so I set out,

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and I was motivated

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to understand destitution from the perspective of economic,

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social, and culture rights.

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And in order to do this, I have to begin

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by providing a definition of destitution

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within the field of these economic and social rights.

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And I start off the book,

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and I started off at the beginning of writing the book with

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a very bare bones and a very skeletal definition.

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I started from the assumption that theoretically

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and logically any human rights based definition

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of destitution has to have two key parts.

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The first of these is the rights that are included,

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and I call these the component rights.

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And the second of these is the level

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of realization of the component rights required

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to avoid destitution.

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And I call this the destitution threshold.

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And it follows from this very basic definition

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that if these human rights have realized

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to the right standards, destitution cannot occur.

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And so the book then builds on that definition,

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which is introduced in the first paragraph,

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and it does so, through giving a chapter

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to the destitution threshold chapter two,

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and also a chapter to the component rights chapter three,

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and I'll work through each of these in turn now.

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So chapter two of the book

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examines the destitution threshold.

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It establishes a destitution threshold that is

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grounded upon pre-existing

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and well-established human rights principles.

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And I think this is an important point to make at the outset

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that I did not set out to argue for new rights

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or to argue for new standards or new obligations of rights.

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Instead, I set out

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to conceptualize restitution within the existing frameworks

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of international human rights law.

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And with respect to the destitution threshold,

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there were three, key questions I had to answer.

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And the first of these, and this is a, an important

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and a key contribution

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of defining destitution from the perspective of economic

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and social rights, is the relationship between charity

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and destitution.

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Historically, destitution has been defined

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by reliance on charity to meet survival needs.

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The Joseph Roundtree Foundation, whose work 2016

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inspired, and motivated this book

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and the PhD that it stemmed from.

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They also recognize that charity is central to destitution,

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but the definition of destitution, which exists in statute

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and which only applies to some people in, in our society,

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that has a different perspective.

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And in that view, charity is not central to destitution.

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And so I had to address this question, is charity central

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to destitution or is it not?

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And from a human rights based perspective

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and from the perspective of economic, social,

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and culture rights is very clear

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that charity is central to destitution.

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Even if somebody can access food

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and clothing by a charity, they are still destitute.

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And this is an important point that I will return to,

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shortly.

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The second question that I had to address was whether

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or not somebody is destitute if they realize

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and they can attain some of the component rights,

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but not others.

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So for example, somebody might be able to access food,

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but they're homeless or they are, able

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to have housing,

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but they're struggling to access

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food on a regular basis without help from charity.

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And the finding in the book is that

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if book one of the component rights is not realized

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to the destitution threshold, if somebody can only

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access food, for example,

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through charity, they are destitute.

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So under the union approach,

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an individual is destitute if any one

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or more of their component rights is not realized

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to the destitution threshold.

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And this is important because

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otherwise, we, we would be, making a judgment.

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We'd be counting points so people can access this, right?

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But not this right and not this right,

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but they can access this, right?

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And in doing that, we will be making it far more difficult

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to determine, whether or not somebody is

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or is not destitute.

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But the second reason why this is important is the

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interrelationship between rights.

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And this is the idea that rights are linked

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and that if we are unable to enjoy one, right,

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that might hinder our enjoyment of other rights.

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And so then beyond the role of charity, beyond whether

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or not one or more rights need not be realized, the final

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question in relation to the destitution threshold is whether

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or not the destitution threshold is universally applicable.

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Does it apply to all states and all context in the world?

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And this is a difficult question

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because, destitution like poverty

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might manifest differently in different contexts.

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So a country where, the poverty line is very low,

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for example, $2 a day will be very different

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to a country such as the United Kingdom,

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whether it's poverty threshold, according

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to some metrics is closer to 16,000 pounds per year,

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which is far higher than $2 a day, which is

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less than a thousand dollars per year.

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And in looking at this, the book, seeks to propose

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an approach which has a universal minimum,

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which is at the same time supplemented by a context

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specific measure.

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There's a minimum, the minimum core obligation

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of economic social culture rights, which applies everywhere,

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and it can never go below that.

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But then beyond that, the book seeks to propose a way

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to determine a context specific

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level of destitution.

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So for example, this might be that if we are

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to define destitution in, monetary terms, that

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that level can be influenced by the amount of money it costs

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to realize the component rights in

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that particular jurisdiction.

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And so in summary, we can

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define the destitution threshold as having

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number one, that we cannot access rights via a charity

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if we access rights via a charity or destitute.

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And number two, that we can have this destitution pressure,

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which has a universal minimum, but also can be adapted

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and increase to higher standard in states

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where it is appropriate to do so.

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And if an individual cannot realize their component rights

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to that destitution threshold without charity,

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then they are destitute.

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And this very naturally brings us then to the second part

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of this definition, the component rights

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and identifying these specific rights was a key aim

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and a key objective of the book.

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And the reason for this is that in identifying specific

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and concrete rights, we can establish the obligations

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and the specific duties which flow from those rights.

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And there were two key,

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parameters when determining what these rights should be.

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Firstly, these component rights must align

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with established understandings of destitution.

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And so we, I synthesize existing definitions of destitution.

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I looked at what was common to them, what was different

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to them, and then I used,

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existing international human rights law,

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to draw parallels to existing rights.

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And the second key parameter was

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that component rights are distinguished.

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What is central to being a component, right, is

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that the non realization will always result in the

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experience of destitution.

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And this second parameter is really important in narrowing

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how we understand destitution

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because the, the alternative view would be to say

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that the normalization

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of many more rights would correlate to destitution.

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But, but that is not the view that I advocate for

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and I argue for in the book.

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I argue that in order to keep this link

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to existing understandings of destitution, we have

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to have a narrow number

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of rights which are component rights.

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And so guided by these two principles,

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I identified Article 11

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and Article nine of the international Covenant on economic,

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social and cultural rights as containing

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the component rights

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of a human rights based definition of destitution.

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So Article 11 of the international covenant on economic,

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social and cultural rights recognizes the rights of everyone

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to an adequate standard of living, including

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adequate food, one of the component rights,

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adequate clothing, another adequate housing,

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another component, right?

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And then also the right to the continuous improvement

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of living conditions.

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And this final right, the continuous improvement

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of living conditions is important

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because this allows the definition of destitution

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that I propose to, advance

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and to develop over time as de destitution,

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as it manifests in society, changes over time.

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We have to recognize also that article 11 of the I fair,

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the to adequate water

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and the right to adequate

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sanitation have been read into this.

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So these really are the goods that people have to be able

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to access to avoid destitution, food, clothing, housing,

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water, and sanitation.

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And then I argue that also we have to look at Article nine,

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the Right to Social Security.

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And this is another key argument in the book, that the right

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to social security at a level

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to realize the component rights, is required,

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that the right social security should be a safety net

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to realize the component rights.

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And I argue that these should be the component rights

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because the adequate realization

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of these rights will always prevent destitution.

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And therefore we can argue that if people can access food,

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clothing, housing, water,

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and sanitation to the standards required

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to the destitution threshold without charity,

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they are not destitute

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or already, I've established that a key part

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of the destitution threshold is reliance on charity.

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If individuals can only access a component rights via

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charity, then they are destitute.

17:11.485 --> 17:13.665
And this is a key contribution of the book.

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It's a key contribution of defining

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destitution from the perspective of economic, social,

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and culture rights.

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And this contribution is important

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because austerity in the UK was designed

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to replace the state provision of a social safety net

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with charitable provision of a social safety net.

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And for this reason, I argue in chapter four of the book,

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the austerity in the UK was destitution inducing

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in its design.

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Now, I, I'm not arguing that it was intended to

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create destitution.

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I'm arguing that with the benefit of hindsight.

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And that in imply, and that in applying this definition

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of destitution, we can categorize austerity as being

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destitution inducing.

18:08.505 --> 18:11.685
It caused people to rely on charity

18:12.465 --> 18:13.845
to access food.

18:13.905 --> 18:17.805
In particular the explosion of food banks, clothing as well,

18:18.515 --> 18:21.245
housing or shelter and so forth.

18:21.325 --> 18:23.605
Increasingly, people need charity

18:24.145 --> 18:27.845
to access these component rights and these survival needs.

18:28.265 --> 18:31.045
In the uk. Austerity calls this

18:32.025 --> 18:34.205
and the impact of this has not gone away.

18:34.385 --> 18:36.245
We see this now even today,

18:36.275 --> 18:39.205
even though allegedly austerity has ended.

18:40.625 --> 18:45.325
Now austerity in the UK was often simply called cuts,

18:45.865 --> 18:47.325
and they have been a key feature

18:47.705 --> 18:51.565
of social security policy throughout most of 2000

18:51.825 --> 18:54.445
and tens in the uk.

18:54.535 --> 18:56.005
There there's a range of changes.

18:56.245 --> 18:58.445
I, I'll only give a few of them because there's so many,

18:58.465 --> 19:02.325
but there were changes to tax credits, changes to benefits

19:02.625 --> 19:04.245
for private renters

19:04.305 --> 19:07.885
and other changes to housing benefits, introduction

19:07.885 --> 19:11.285
of the bedroom tax introduction of a benefit cap,

19:12.165 --> 19:13.805
limiting the increase of benefits.

19:13.825 --> 19:16.765
And a key and an important change was the introduction

19:16.985 --> 19:18.645
of universal credit.

19:19.995 --> 19:23.855
But the important point without going into detail on these

19:23.855 --> 19:27.495
changes because we could speak to this for many hours

19:27.835 --> 19:31.975
and many days, is that all of these policies were designed

19:32.675 --> 19:34.215
on an assumption

19:35.195 --> 19:37.895
and a view that envisioned

19:38.405 --> 19:40.455
that these will be supplemented.

19:40.515 --> 19:43.735
But by the idea of the big society.

19:45.755 --> 19:49.655
The big society was absolutely central to

19:50.375 --> 19:54.315
and was a guiding principle of the coalition government

19:54.315 --> 19:58.755
of 2010 to 2000 fifteen's social welfare policies.

20:00.215 --> 20:02.755
It was underpinned by the idea

20:03.345 --> 20:05.235
that the state is bad

20:05.775 --> 20:10.435
and anything else, charities, volunteers is better.

20:12.295 --> 20:15.075
The big society was about rolling back the state.

20:15.095 --> 20:16.875
It was about the state retreating

20:17.855 --> 20:20.915
and filling the gaps left by it by charity.

20:21.425 --> 20:24.875
Therefore it promoted the delivery of public services

20:26.285 --> 20:27.505
by charity

20:28.165 --> 20:31.745
and the voluntary sector, it promoted the provision

20:31.745 --> 20:35.425
of the social safety net by charity and the public sector.

20:36.615 --> 20:40.115
And therefore, as I argue in the book, this was designed

20:40.215 --> 20:42.475
to foster a reliance on charity.

20:43.825 --> 20:46.845
And because of this, because of reliance on charity to

20:46.845 --> 20:51.005
Meet the component rights is desti is destitution.

20:51.985 --> 20:54.045
It follows the, the big society

20:54.745 --> 20:59.525
and austerity they led to higher rates

20:59.585 --> 21:01.565
of destitution in the United Kingdom.

21:02.885 --> 21:04.225
And this is important finding

21:04.225 --> 21:07.665
because number one, it suggests that if we are

21:07.665 --> 21:11.065
to have future austerity, it should be designed

21:11.065 --> 21:14.105
with this idea in mind, this idea that if we do not want

21:14.105 --> 21:17.985
to cause the restitution, we cannot rely on austerity,

21:18.435 --> 21:20.545
which is designed with charity in mind.

21:21.565 --> 21:23.865
But importantly, it also shows

21:23.935 --> 21:26.385
that government policies have the potential

21:26.725 --> 21:29.385
to cause destitution, which would suggest

21:29.655 --> 21:34.025
that they have the potential to also, fix

21:34.575 --> 21:37.585
destitution to prevent destitution from

21:37.585 --> 21:39.225
occurring in the first place.

21:39.645 --> 21:42.945
And so this human rights understanding of destitution,

21:42.945 --> 21:46.105
which is proposed in the book, can be used

21:46.245 --> 21:49.225
to inform future austerity policies.

21:49.475 --> 21:52.825
Human rights based understanding of destitution can be used

21:52.825 --> 21:56.025
to inform future austerity policies.

21:56.845 --> 22:00.225
And the book has several key conclusions in regard to this.

22:01.085 --> 22:03.745
The first is the definition

22:03.805 --> 22:06.665
of destitution grounded in economic, social,

22:07.005 --> 22:08.025
and culture rights.

22:08.965 --> 22:10.545
It suggests specific rights

22:10.965 --> 22:12.225
and suggests an approach

22:12.365 --> 22:16.345
to determining the destitution threshold of these rights,

22:16.345 --> 22:18.585
both generally, but also in the uk.

22:20.445 --> 22:23.865
The second key conclusion is that charity is central

22:24.005 --> 22:26.425
to the experience of destitution.

22:27.285 --> 22:29.465
And the third key conclusion is that

22:29.485 --> 22:32.865
by fostering a reliance on charity as a social safety net,

22:33.335 --> 22:35.665
austerity has caused destitution.

22:36.625 --> 22:38.525
Now these conclusions come together

22:39.185 --> 22:40.805
to influence recommendations

22:40.805 --> 22:42.645
because what this suggests is that

22:43.305 --> 22:46.965
the social security system should be designed so

22:46.965 --> 22:48.565
that people do not need charity

22:48.745 --> 22:50.365
to access the component rights.

22:51.155 --> 22:56.085
This is the primary way through which changes could be made

22:56.145 --> 22:57.885
to prevent restitution in the uk

22:58.355 --> 23:01.525
because so many people in the UK are destitute

23:01.525 --> 23:02.925
because they rely on charity.

23:04.085 --> 23:07.465
If we negate that need for a reliance on charity,

23:08.325 --> 23:11.625
we reduce the levels of destitution significantly.

23:12.125 --> 23:13.505
And so what are the recommendations

23:13.505 --> 23:15.105
that flow from these conclusions?

23:15.735 --> 23:18.305
Firstly, it should be the state

23:19.245 --> 23:22.385
and not charity, which provides a social safety

23:22.525 --> 23:24.225
net in our society.

23:24.965 --> 23:28.465
It should be the state that ensures that people's economic,

23:28.465 --> 23:32.025
social and cultural rights are realized when they're unable

23:32.025 --> 23:33.145
to do so for themselves.

23:34.805 --> 23:36.425
And in order to achieve this,

23:37.125 --> 23:40.345
the social security system in the UK should be designed

23:40.695 --> 23:45.405
with the realization of the component rights in mind.

23:46.885 --> 23:50.825
The social security policies must be altered to ensure

23:51.255 --> 23:53.225
that welfare benefits act

23:53.225 --> 23:55.225
as a safety net against restitution.

23:57.125 --> 24:00.425
And through this way, if we were to achieve this economic,

24:00.425 --> 24:02.425
social and cultural rights could serve

24:02.485 --> 24:06.385
to address restitution through expanding the level

24:06.405 --> 24:09.345
of protection offered by the social security system.

24:10.725 --> 24:13.185
It should be designed to ensure the realization

24:13.405 --> 24:15.665
of an adequate standard of living.

24:17.725 --> 24:20.385
But at the same time, if we were to foreground economic

24:20.405 --> 24:23.265
and social cultural rights in this way, we would also

24:24.115 --> 24:27.025
contribute to the greater realization of economic,

24:27.025 --> 24:28.705
social, and cultural rights.

24:28.705 --> 24:32.185
So not only do we tackle destitution,

24:32.685 --> 24:34.705
but we improve adherence to economic,

24:35.045 --> 24:37.025
social and cultural rights.

24:37.885 --> 24:42.785
And so to draw towards, an ending today, I I'd like

24:42.785 --> 24:45.105
to draw attention to how I begin the final

24:45.105 --> 24:46.145
paragraph of the book.

24:46.945 --> 24:49.345
I think it makes sense to end with those words

24:49.885 --> 24:53.305
and I quote Strengthening recasting

24:53.445 --> 24:57.505
and reconceptualizing our social security system so

24:57.505 --> 24:58.945
that it is informed by

24:59.325 --> 25:01.825
and adheres to both the right

25:01.825 --> 25:03.345
to an adequate standard of living.

25:03.965 --> 25:08.105
And the right to social security is a necessary evolution

25:08.565 --> 25:11.105
to address restitution in the United Kingdom.

00:00 - This book really stemmed from my PhD project, and so to speak about where the book came from and its motivations I have to speak about what motivated the PhD. And I'll start off by saying that firstly, one of the key things when I started there

00:16 - to look towards doing a PhD was that across society and across civil society, there was renewed interest and engagement with the idea of destitution in British society. And so this is a good point to explain how destitution has been understood. Traditionally, traditionally, it's been understood as an extreme form of poverty, which forces people to rely on social transfers to meet survival needs. So it's not just poverty, it's poverty, which relates

00:50 - to meeting survival needs, the absolute basic essentials that we need to survive. And the reason that there was growing interest in this, and the reason that this came to motivate the work was because we had a period of growing poverty and restitution in the United Kingdom. The second thing that really motivated the work was a recognition that the existing legal framework was not very effective and not very responsive to tackling destitution

01:29 - in particular human rights. So the European Convention of Human Rights does not contain a right to be free from poverty or destitution. There is also no such right contained in British domestic law on the statute book. And this meant that the law itself has not been very successful in tackling destitution. It means that people can be destitute

01:54 - and that can be lawful. And whilst there are some exceptions to this, the exceptions are quite narrow. They tend to focus on particular social groups on the vulnerability of those groups, and they may allow human rights based claims to succeed. And so I wanted to explore the potential of economic, social, and cultural rights, which are not contained in the European Convention of Human Rights to tackle destitution.

02:25 - And so the, these are the two factors, really. One that destitution was growing and two, that I wanted to look at an alternative way of understanding destitution and mobilizing human rights to, try and address and to reduce destitution. And the reason for choosing to focus on economic, social, and cultural rights is that it was very apparent to me from the outset, and it was very obvious that destitution correlates

02:54 - to the non-real of a range of these rights. And the reason for this, if I go back to the very brief definition of destitution that I gave at the outset, is that destitution has been very strongly linked to the idea of survival needs. And now survival needs such as food, housing, water, clothing, sanitation, these needs are contained in the international t on economic, social and cultural rights within Article 11,

03:32 - which I'll come to later. And because of that, I wanted to explore how this provision could be used to understand destitution, what the correlation between these, these two concepts were on the one hand destitution, and on the one hand, the I chest at International Covenant on economic, social and cultural rights. And destitution not been defined from this perspective before, nor had the link between this convention and this provision, and these rights

04:05 - and destitution been explored explicitly. And so really it was about mobilizing these rights against destitution to see how understanding destitution in these ways could allow us to tackle destitution number one, but also how foregrounding these rights in the fights against destitution might contribute to the greater realization of these rights as well. And so I set out, and I was motivated

04:38 - to understand destitution from the perspective of economic, social, and culture rights. And in order to do this, I have to begin by providing a definition of destitution within the field of these economic and social rights. And I start off the book, and I started off at the beginning of writing the book with a very bare bones and a very skeletal definition. I started from the assumption that theoretically and logically any human rights based definition

05:16 - of destitution has to have two key parts. The first of these is the rights that are included, and I call these the component rights. And the second of these is the level of realization of the component rights required to avoid destitution. And I call this the destitution threshold. And it follows from this very basic definition that if these human rights have realized to the right standards, destitution cannot occur.

05:55 - And so the book then builds on that definition, which is introduced in the first paragraph, and it does so, through giving a chapter to the destitution threshold chapter two, and also a chapter to the component rights chapter three, and I'll work through each of these in turn now. So chapter two of the book examines the destitution threshold. It establishes a destitution threshold that is grounded upon pre-existing

06:26 - and well-established human rights principles. And I think this is an important point to make at the outset that I did not set out to argue for new rights or to argue for new standards or new obligations of rights. Instead, I set out to conceptualize restitution within the existing frameworks of international human rights law. And with respect to the destitution threshold, there were three, key questions I had to answer. And the first of these, and this is a, an important

07:04 - and a key contribution of defining destitution from the perspective of economic and social rights, is the relationship between charity and destitution. Historically, destitution has been defined by reliance on charity to meet survival needs. The Joseph Roundtree Foundation, whose work 2016 inspired, and motivated this book and the PhD that it stemmed from. They also recognize that charity is central to destitution,

07:43 - but the definition of destitution, which exists in statute and which only applies to some people in, in our society, that has a different perspective. And in that view, charity is not central to destitution. And so I had to address this question, is charity central to destitution or is it not? And from a human rights based perspective and from the perspective of economic, social, and culture rights is very clear that charity is central to destitution.

08:17 - Even if somebody can access food and clothing by a charity, they are still destitute. And this is an important point that I will return to, shortly. The second question that I had to address was whether or not somebody is destitute if they realize and they can attain some of the component rights, but not others. So for example, somebody might be able to access food, but they're homeless or they are, able

08:55 - to have housing, but they're struggling to access food on a regular basis without help from charity. And the finding in the book is that if book one of the component rights is not realized to the destitution threshold, if somebody can only access food, for example, through charity, they are destitute. So under the union approach, an individual is destitute if any one

09:23 - or more of their component rights is not realized to the destitution threshold. And this is important because otherwise, we, we would be, making a judgment. We'd be counting points so people can access this, right? But not this right and not this right, but they can access this, right? And in doing that, we will be making it far more difficult to determine, whether or not somebody is or is not destitute.

09:52 - But the second reason why this is important is the interrelationship between rights. And this is the idea that rights are linked and that if we are unable to enjoy one, right, that might hinder our enjoyment of other rights. And so then beyond the role of charity, beyond whether or not one or more rights need not be realized, the final question in relation to the destitution threshold is whether or not the destitution threshold is universally applicable. Does it apply to all states and all context in the world?

10:33 - And this is a difficult question because, destitution like poverty might manifest differently in different contexts. So a country where, the poverty line is very low, for example, $2 a day will be very different to a country such as the United Kingdom, whether it's poverty threshold, according to some metrics is closer to 16,000 pounds per year, which is far higher than $2 a day, which is less than a thousand dollars per year.

11:06 - And in looking at this, the book, seeks to propose an approach which has a universal minimum, which is at the same time supplemented by a context specific measure. There's a minimum, the minimum core obligation of economic social culture rights, which applies everywhere, and it can never go below that. But then beyond that, the book seeks to propose a way to determine a context specific level of destitution.

11:41 - So for example, this might be that if we are to define destitution in, monetary terms, that that level can be influenced by the amount of money it costs to realize the component rights in that particular jurisdiction. And so in summary, we can define the destitution threshold as having number one, that we cannot access rights via a charity if we access rights via a charity or destitute. And number two, that we can have this destitution pressure,

12:20 - which has a universal minimum, but also can be adapted and increase to higher standard in states where it is appropriate to do so. And if an individual cannot realize their component rights to that destitution threshold without charity, then they are destitute. And this very naturally brings us then to the second part of this definition, the component rights and identifying these specific rights was a key aim and a key objective of the book.

12:54 - And the reason for this is that in identifying specific and concrete rights, we can establish the obligations and the specific duties which flow from those rights. And there were two key, parameters when determining what these rights should be. Firstly, these component rights must align with established understandings of destitution. And so we, I synthesize existing definitions of destitution. I looked at what was common to them, what was different to them, and then I used,

13:41 - existing international human rights law, to draw parallels to existing rights. And the second key parameter was that component rights are distinguished. What is central to being a component, right, is that the non realization will always result in the experience of destitution. And this second parameter is really important in narrowing how we understand destitution because the, the alternative view would be to say

14:15 - that the normalization of many more rights would correlate to destitution. But, but that is not the view that I advocate for and I argue for in the book. I argue that in order to keep this link to existing understandings of destitution, we have to have a narrow number of rights which are component rights. And so guided by these two principles, I identified Article 11

14:42 - and Article nine of the international Covenant on economic, social and cultural rights as containing the component rights of a human rights based definition of destitution. So Article 11 of the international covenant on economic, social and cultural rights recognizes the rights of everyone to an adequate standard of living, including adequate food, one of the component rights, adequate clothing, another adequate housing, another component, right?

15:17 - And then also the right to the continuous improvement of living conditions. And this final right, the continuous improvement of living conditions is important because this allows the definition of destitution that I propose to, advance and to develop over time as de destitution, as it manifests in society, changes over time. We have to recognize also that article 11 of the I fair, the to adequate water

15:48 - and the right to adequate sanitation have been read into this. So these really are the goods that people have to be able to access to avoid destitution, food, clothing, housing, water, and sanitation. And then I argue that also we have to look at Article nine, the Right to Social Security. And this is another key argument in the book, that the right to social security at a level to realize the component rights, is required,

16:20 - that the right social security should be a safety net to realize the component rights. And I argue that these should be the component rights because the adequate realization of these rights will always prevent destitution. And therefore we can argue that if people can access food, clothing, housing, water, and sanitation to the standards required to the destitution threshold without charity, they are not destitute

16:56 - or already, I've established that a key part of the destitution threshold is reliance on charity. If individuals can only access a component rights via charity, then they are destitute. And this is a key contribution of the book. It's a key contribution of defining destitution from the perspective of economic, social, and culture rights. And this contribution is important because austerity in the UK was designed

17:29 - to replace the state provision of a social safety net with charitable provision of a social safety net. And for this reason, I argue in chapter four of the book, the austerity in the UK was destitution inducing in its design. Now, I, I'm not arguing that it was intended to create destitution. I'm arguing that with the benefit of hindsight. And that in imply, and that in applying this definition of destitution, we can categorize austerity as being

18:05 - destitution inducing. It caused people to rely on charity to access food. In particular the explosion of food banks, clothing as well, housing or shelter and so forth. Increasingly, people need charity to access these component rights and these survival needs. In the uk. Austerity calls this and the impact of this has not gone away. We see this now even today,

18:36 - even though allegedly austerity has ended. Now austerity in the UK was often simply called cuts, and they have been a key feature of social security policy throughout most of 2000 and tens in the uk. There there's a range of changes. I, I'll only give a few of them because there's so many, but there were changes to tax credits, changes to benefits for private renters and other changes to housing benefits, introduction

19:07 - of the bedroom tax introduction of a benefit cap, limiting the increase of benefits. And a key and an important change was the introduction of universal credit. But the important point without going into detail on these changes because we could speak to this for many hours and many days, is that all of these policies were designed on an assumption and a view that envisioned that these will be supplemented.

19:40 - But by the idea of the big society. The big society was absolutely central to and was a guiding principle of the coalition government of 2010 to 2000 fifteen's social welfare policies. It was underpinned by the idea that the state is bad and anything else, charities, volunteers is better. The big society was about rolling back the state. It was about the state retreating and filling the gaps left by it by charity.

20:21 - Therefore it promoted the delivery of public services by charity and the voluntary sector, it promoted the provision of the social safety net by charity and the public sector. And therefore, as I argue in the book, this was designed to foster a reliance on charity. And because of this, because of reliance on charity to Meet the component rights is desti is destitution. It follows the, the big society and austerity they led to higher rates

20:59 - of destitution in the United Kingdom. And this is important finding because number one, it suggests that if we are to have future austerity, it should be designed with this idea in mind, this idea that if we do not want to cause the restitution, we cannot rely on austerity, which is designed with charity in mind. But importantly, it also shows that government policies have the potential to cause destitution, which would suggest

21:29 - that they have the potential to also, fix destitution to prevent destitution from occurring in the first place. And so this human rights understanding of destitution, which is proposed in the book, can be used to inform future austerity policies. Human rights based understanding of destitution can be used to inform future austerity policies. And the book has several key conclusions in regard to this. The first is the definition

22:03 - of destitution grounded in economic, social, and culture rights. It suggests specific rights and suggests an approach to determining the destitution threshold of these rights, both generally, but also in the uk. The second key conclusion is that charity is central to the experience of destitution. And the third key conclusion is that by fostering a reliance on charity as a social safety net,

22:33 - austerity has caused destitution. Now these conclusions come together to influence recommendations because what this suggests is that the social security system should be designed so that people do not need charity to access the component rights. This is the primary way through which changes could be made to prevent restitution in the uk because so many people in the UK are destitute

23:01 - because they rely on charity. If we negate that need for a reliance on charity, we reduce the levels of destitution significantly. And so what are the recommendations that flow from these conclusions? Firstly, it should be the state and not charity, which provides a social safety net in our society. It should be the state that ensures that people's economic, social and cultural rights are realized when they're unable

23:32 - to do so for themselves. And in order to achieve this, the social security system in the UK should be designed with the realization of the component rights in mind. The social security policies must be altered to ensure that welfare benefits act as a safety net against restitution. And through this way, if we were to achieve this economic, social and cultural rights could serve to address restitution through expanding the level

24:06 - of protection offered by the social security system. It should be designed to ensure the realization of an adequate standard of living. But at the same time, if we were to foreground economic and social cultural rights in this way, we would also contribute to the greater realization of economic, social, and cultural rights. So not only do we tackle destitution, but we improve adherence to economic, social and cultural rights.

24:37 - And so to draw towards, an ending today, I I'd like to draw attention to how I begin the final paragraph of the book. I think it makes sense to end with those words and I quote Strengthening recasting and reconceptualizing our social security system so that it is informed by and adheres to both the right to an adequate standard of living. And the right to social security is a necessary evolution

25:08 - to address restitution in the United Kingdom.

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