Popular in Arts and Humanities

Arts and Humanities

Titus Quinctius Flamininus’ “Italian triumph”

McGill University Michael Fronda

Arts and Humanities

Lincoln and the Jews

Brandeis University Jonathan Sarna

Arts and Humanities

Amputations and Convalescence

University of Western Australia Emily Brink

Art

Drawing on the past: Palladio, his precursors and knowledge of ancient architecture

University of Birmingham David Hemsoll

Art

Language, Sound, and Image in Wallace Berman’s Aleph, 1956–1966

University of San Diego Chelsea Behle Fralick

Arts and Humanities

Early Modern Natural Law Theories

University of Copenhagen Knud Haakonssen

Let Our Bodies Change the Subject

View more insights in Arts and Humanities - Books - Literature

View more figures from Independent Scholar

View the page of Jared Harel

Read the Study

In clear, dynamic verses that disarm then strike, Jared Harél investigates our days through the keyhole of domesticity, through personal lyrics and cultural reckonings.

Image courtesy of interviewee. February 22, 2024

Generating Workspace

Export as PDF

The speaker discusses their motivation for writing poetry, highlighting a quest for discovery and articulation of human experience. Writing poems often begins with specific images or memories, including inspiration from their children, and is closely intertwined with reading. The speaker emphasizes the importance of themes and voice when creating a cohesive poetry collection, noting that their work often reflects the complexities of parenthood and the balance between joy and anxiety in raising children in a challenging world.

The themes of life, death, love, and protection are central to the poems, particularly influenced by the speaker's experiences as a parent. The process of observing their children growing and learning encourages the speaker to see the world anew, contributing to their poetic perspective.

Through specific examples of poems from their collection, the speaker illustrates the intricate interplay of personal experiences and broader societal issues, such as mass shootings and the challenges of human existence. They express a desire for their poetry to resonate with readers, allowing them to find connection and understanding, while acknowledging that readers bring their unique interpretations to the work. Ultimately, the speaker hopes that their poetry fosters a sense of shared humanity and alleviates feelings of isolation.

Language:

Export as PDF

Export as PDF
Here are some key quotes from the video you :

1. **On Discovery**:
- "What motivates any poem for me is... kind of this search for discovery."
- "I try to write toward discovery... to articulate the world in a new or engaging or interesting way."

2. **On Reading and Writing**:
- "For me, reading and writing are kind of simultaneous activities."
- "I like that interaction between reading and writing."

3. **On Parenthood and Themes**:
- "I realized pretty quickly that it was a book that was... knee deep in parenthood and fatherhood."
- "The stakes are life and death, right? You know, or love and death. The two great themes of literature."

4. **On the Influence of Children**:
- "Being a parent to young children... the world became this infinitely stranger and brighter and scarier place."
- "What's humbling work to haul kids toward thoughtful."

5. **On the Nature of Poetry**:
- "In many cases, that's the stakes of being human... poetry is so good and incisive at getting to those stakes really quickly."
- "We come to poetry, not out of what we know, but out of what we wonder."

6. **On the Process of Writing**:
- "I try not to be too overdetermined about what a reader will take from an individual poem or a collection."
- "The reader completes the poem."

7. **On Connection through Poetry**:
- "Ultimately, I hope that readers find and feel that there's another human being on the end of the page."
- "Someone who's imperfect and searching and trying to connect."

8. **On Life Events**:
- "It was written... after a mass shooting in this country."
- "I want one ruined thing, utterly redeemed... a death toll rescinded."

These quotes encapsulate the themes of discovery, parenthood, the writing process, and the human experience that are central to the video.

Export as PDF

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

00:00.000 --> 00:04.925
What motivates any poem for me is, kind

00:04.925 --> 00:05.925
of this search for discovery.

00:06.125 --> 00:07.685
I, I try to write toward discovery.

00:08.385 --> 00:10.965
Um, and so for me it's that impulse to kind

00:10.965 --> 00:13.725
of articulate the world in a new or engaging

00:13.825 --> 00:16.365
or interesting way, and to kind of describe

00:16.365 --> 00:17.485
what it means to be alive.

00:18.105 --> 00:21.725
Um, I think there's a lot of satisfaction in putting words

00:21.865 --> 00:24.525
to an experience or words to a memory, kind

00:24.525 --> 00:26.565
of like a puzzle piece clicking into place.

00:27.185 --> 00:29.805
Um, with this collection, some poems began

00:29.805 --> 00:31.045
with a specific image

00:31.745 --> 00:34.615
or a specific memory or with something.

00:34.715 --> 00:36.895
Uh, my children said, you know, I have a,

00:36.895 --> 00:40.095
an 11-year-old daughter and an 8-year-old son who,

00:40.095 --> 00:41.815
they both make their way into the collection

00:41.815 --> 00:43.055
to their tremendous delight.

00:43.205 --> 00:45.815
They're still very happy to have themselves in these poems,

00:45.915 --> 00:49.015
and so sometimes something they'll say will trigger,

00:49.215 --> 00:51.455
a poem or an idea or something I read.

00:51.795 --> 00:54.215
Uh, for me, reading and writing are kind

00:54.215 --> 00:55.455
of simultaneous activities.

00:55.455 --> 00:58.255
If you were to see me writing it would be me

00:58.255 --> 01:00.175
with like a stack of books and me reading a lot

01:00.175 --> 01:01.335
and then responding to it.

01:01.835 --> 01:04.495
Um, so I really like that interaction

01:04.495 --> 01:05.535
between reading and writing.

01:05.995 --> 01:09.055
So all those things sort of motivate the individual poems,

01:09.675 --> 01:11.135
but then that's very different from kind

01:11.135 --> 01:13.255
of taking those 50 individual poems

01:13.955 --> 01:16.215
and bringing them into make a collection, a book.

01:16.555 --> 01:19.895
Um, that's when I start to think about voice.

01:20.615 --> 01:24.215
I try to think about theme, you know, different threads

01:24.215 --> 01:25.695
that will make it not just a collection

01:25.695 --> 01:27.535
of individual poems, but a coherent book.

01:27.755 --> 01:29.495
And so with let our Bodies change the subject,

01:30.255 --> 01:34.635
I realized pretty quickly that it was a book that was,

01:34.635 --> 01:36.715
knee deep in parenthood and fatherhood.

01:37.255 --> 01:40.875
Um, and this notion of living for joy,

01:41.015 --> 01:43.355
but also being sort of haunted by the past

01:43.415 --> 01:44.675
and terrified for the future

01:45.295 --> 01:47.635
and how to raise children in that kind of world.

01:48.015 --> 01:49.315
And that, you know,

01:49.315 --> 01:50.715
the poems all go in different directions,

01:50.735 --> 01:52.115
but that, that core thread,

01:52.795 --> 01:54.195
I think was there the whole way through.

01:54.615 --> 01:56.995
Um, and then it's just a matter of trying

01:56.995 --> 01:59.515
to organize the collection to make it,

01:59.515 --> 02:00.555
the best book it can be.

02:00.975 --> 02:03.875
Um, so I guess kind of what motivated the book is

02:04.845 --> 02:08.515
being a parent, being someone who's paying attention

02:08.515 --> 02:11.475
to the world, who's constantly looking for a way

02:11.475 --> 02:13.595
to put language, to experience and,

02:13.595 --> 02:15.435
and just kind of being a, a human being.

02:15.905 --> 02:17.835
Well, the stakes are, are life and death, right?

02:18.215 --> 02:20.435
You know, you know, or love and death.

02:20.455 --> 02:22.595
The two great themes of, of literature.

02:22.975 --> 02:27.635
Um, and I think for me, those themes,

02:28.695 --> 02:29.755
really expanded.

02:29.935 --> 02:32.315
The stakes really were raised by becoming a parent.

02:32.735 --> 02:34.795
Uh, for me, becoming a parent to young children,

02:34.855 --> 02:38.395
the world became this infinitely stranger and brighter

02:38.695 --> 02:39.835
and scarier place.

02:40.575 --> 02:42.755
Um, and so I think themes of fear

02:42.815 --> 02:45.955
and protection kind of work their way through my mind

02:46.055 --> 02:47.875
and my life, and also through my poems.

02:48.335 --> 02:52.075
Uh, being a parent to young kids, it sort

02:52.075 --> 02:53.955
of feels like dealing with life

02:53.955 --> 02:55.955
and death is kind of an everyday occurrence.

02:55.955 --> 02:58.715
Whether your kid's learning to, you know, ride a scooter

02:58.715 --> 03:00.725
or bath time or cutting up the pieces

03:00.865 --> 03:02.205
of food so they're small.

03:02.205 --> 03:04.285
And so, you know, so that nobody chokes

03:04.285 --> 03:07.845
or, you know, baby proofing, you know, a lot of parents know

03:07.845 --> 03:09.565
that idea of baby proofing a house.

03:09.865 --> 03:13.525
So it's, it suddenly becomes a much more, you know, real

03:13.545 --> 03:14.885
and present danger for me.

03:15.225 --> 03:18.725
Um, so like, that's one thing.

03:18.725 --> 03:20.685
Another thing is that with children,

03:20.835 --> 03:23.965
like they're learning the world right before your eyes.

03:24.185 --> 03:26.405
And that I find really helpful,

03:26.555 --> 03:28.605
because they constantly see the world anew.

03:29.145 --> 03:31.645
Um, and I get like language

03:31.645 --> 03:32.765
and I think as a writer, I'm always

03:32.765 --> 03:33.805
trying to see the world anew.

03:34.185 --> 03:35.525
So like, for example, the poem

03:35.595 --> 03:37.605
that you referenced is the opening poem in the

03:37.605 --> 03:38.845
collection, sad rollercoaster.

03:39.465 --> 03:42.165
Uh, that poem was kind of the culmination

03:42.165 --> 03:44.725
of a summer in which my daughter questioned

03:44.745 --> 03:47.965
by incisive question came to understand in her own way

03:48.475 --> 03:50.485
what it was like, what death was.

03:50.745 --> 03:51.965
You know, she was asking these questions

03:51.965 --> 03:53.245
and getting closer and closer.

03:53.505 --> 03:56.445
And then we were at, Coney Island,

03:57.145 --> 04:00.285
and she saw these big old rollercoasters,

04:00.305 --> 04:02.445
in the distance, and suddenly it clicked for her.

04:02.625 --> 04:04.245
And she called it a sad rollercoaster.

04:04.585 --> 04:07.205
And in her own way, she kind of, I think, came

04:07.205 --> 04:09.285
to understand, you know, death

04:09.625 --> 04:11.325
and wanted to go home and got very upset.

04:11.345 --> 04:16.045
And I think, so the stakes, yeah, can be very much life

04:16.045 --> 04:17.125
and death, love and death.

04:17.265 --> 04:20.285
And, you know, I also think that in many cases,

04:20.345 --> 04:22.165
that's the stakes of, of being human.

04:22.185 --> 04:25.605
And I, I love that poetry is so good

04:25.625 --> 04:28.525
and incisive at getting to those stakes really quickly.

04:29.225 --> 04:32.715
Um, you know, not just the stakes of what it means

04:32.715 --> 04:34.195
to be human, but doing so in action.

04:34.815 --> 04:37.715
Um, Elizabeth Bishop says that, you know,

04:37.975 --> 04:39.515
her poems are not a thought,

04:39.855 --> 04:43.435
but the mind's thinking, you know, this, that it's, you try

04:43.435 --> 04:45.235
to, in a poem, actually show your thought.

04:45.305 --> 04:46.835
It's not like I have this thing I wanna say

04:46.835 --> 04:47.875
and then I say it, but

04:47.875 --> 04:49.835
that the poem is actually part of that process.

04:50.775 --> 04:54.755
Um, Lucille Clifton, another wonderful writer, said,

04:54.775 --> 04:56.955
you know, we come to poetry, not out of

04:56.955 --> 04:58.755
what we know, but out of what we wonder.

04:59.455 --> 05:03.115
And so I think both of those kind of speak to the stakes of

05:03.335 --> 05:06.755
of being a person, a, a poet, a parent.

05:07.375 --> 05:08.875
All the above picked three.

05:08.975 --> 05:10.715
So I'll start with the one we were just talking about,

05:10.715 --> 05:12.715
the opening poem in my collection,

05:12.975 --> 05:14.875
my collection's called Let Our Bodies Change the Subject.

05:14.975 --> 05:16.715
It came out, this September from

05:16.715 --> 05:17.915
University of Nebraska Press.

05:18.615 --> 05:21.435
Uh, and the opening poem is that poem, sad rollercoaster,

05:21.435 --> 05:23.155
which I was just telling, talking to you about.

05:23.575 --> 05:26.075
My daughter is in the kitchen working out death.

05:27.085 --> 05:30.105
She wants to get it how it tastes and feels.

05:31.005 --> 05:33.865
Her teacher talks like it's some glittery gold sticker.

05:34.565 --> 05:37.705
Her classmates hear rumors launch it as a curse.

05:37.975 --> 05:41.775
When toys aren't shared between bites of cantaloupe,

05:42.075 --> 05:43.535
she considers what she knows,

05:44.315 --> 05:47.095
her friend's grandpa lives only in her iPad.

05:47.835 --> 05:50.655
Dr. Seuss passed, but keeps speaking and rhyme.

05:51.675 --> 05:52.895
We go to Queen Zoo

05:52.895 --> 05:54.255
and spot the bakish skull

05:54.255 --> 05:56.895
of a white-tailed deer tucked between rocks

05:56.895 --> 05:58.165
And the pumas enclosure.

05:58.955 --> 06:03.545
It's just for show, I explain explaining nothing that night.

06:03.605 --> 06:06.585
And the one after my daughter, dreams of bones

06:07.295 --> 06:11.745
have a lift out of her skin and try on her dresses so silly.

06:11.845 --> 06:13.985
She laughs when I ask if she's okay.

06:15.175 --> 06:19.025
Then toward the back end of summer, we head to Coney Island

06:19.125 --> 06:20.505
to catch a cyclones game.

06:21.125 --> 06:23.145
We buy popcorn and fries,

06:23.465 --> 06:27.425
a pop fly arcs over checkerboard grass when past the warning

06:27.475 --> 06:31.225
track the park wall, she sees a giant wooden spine.

06:31.975 --> 06:35.305
This brownish red maze traced in decay,

06:36.405 --> 06:41.305
she calls it sad rollercoaster then begs to be taken home.

06:41.645 --> 06:44.105
And the next poem I'm gonna read has actually

06:44.105 --> 06:45.185
both of my kids in it.

06:45.445 --> 06:48.705
Uh, so the whole collection was written in Queens and,

06:48.705 --> 06:50.705
and queens shows up throughout the,

06:50.705 --> 06:53.425
throughout the book it's called, all I've Ever Wanted,

06:53.765 --> 06:55.025
and I apologize in advance.

06:55.025 --> 06:56.905
There's a tiny little bit of singing in the poem.

06:58.325 --> 07:02.755
All I've ever wanted, the almond milk has turned flex

07:02.855 --> 07:05.915
of foul snow slink in slow liquid,

07:06.655 --> 07:08.635
not the discovery I had angled for this morning,

07:08.855 --> 07:12.395
but as my dad likes to sing, like some Jewish M**k Jagger,

07:12.935 --> 07:17.865
you can't always get what you won't, which is just

07:17.865 --> 07:21.305
what I croon to my two children, driving them up the wall,

07:21.305 --> 07:24.625
because of course, all they want is to get what they want.

07:25.465 --> 07:29.225
A fifth scoop of gelato to play Minecraft to their eyeballs,

07:29.465 --> 07:31.225
pixelate in their skulls.

07:32.295 --> 07:36.905
What humbling work to haul kids toward thoughtful, the kind

07:37.245 --> 07:41.025
and humankind like a foreign language on a stubborn tongue.

07:42.055 --> 07:45.875
It, even as a toddler, my son would refuse a lollipop if his

07:45.875 --> 07:49.115
sister didn't get one, still pluck an extra sticker

07:49.455 --> 07:50.915
to gift her after school.

07:52.105 --> 07:55.085
And hell, my daughter can't ride an elevator without making

07:55.205 --> 07:58.765
a new friend or some lady's day by praising her earrings,

07:59.025 --> 08:00.405
her sweater, her purse.

08:01.595 --> 08:04.375
My point about discovery has escaped me by now,

08:04.825 --> 08:07.485
though I know the old chorus for thwarted desire,

08:08.385 --> 08:12.205
my cereal will be dry coffee taken black.

08:13.085 --> 08:16.365
I will try against hope to be better than myself,

08:17.265 --> 08:20.935
which is all I've ever wanted and everything I need.

08:22.995 --> 08:25.015
And the third poem I'll read is actually the title

08:25.045 --> 08:26.095
poem to the collection.

08:26.755 --> 08:29.175
Um, and we were talking earlier about themes,

08:29.275 --> 08:32.335
and one of the themes I noticed was this sort

08:32.335 --> 08:35.655
of twin impulse that we often have to both look

08:35.675 --> 08:38.455
and look away to bear witness and pay attention,

08:38.555 --> 08:40.495
but also to kind of avert our gaze.

08:41.075 --> 08:42.775
And how as people, we're always kind of

08:43.045 --> 08:44.095
between these two things.

08:44.115 --> 08:46.495
You know, the world is a, is a difficult place to,

08:46.515 --> 08:49.615
to bear witness to, but it's also very important to do that.

08:49.635 --> 08:51.935
And I think especially as writers, we're constantly

08:52.605 --> 08:55.925
reminding ourselves to pay attention, you know, to look,

08:56.445 --> 08:58.405
I think, it's Carrie Fountain who said

08:58.405 --> 09:01.365
that writing is the act of not giving away your attention,

09:01.505 --> 09:03.565
but keeping that attention with you where you are.

09:04.105 --> 09:05.485
Um, and I love that definition

09:05.485 --> 09:08.085
because it has nothing to do with actually putting words on

09:08.125 --> 09:12.095
a page, but, just being awake and, and aware.

09:12.715 --> 09:14.375
Um, so this poem is called Let Our

09:14.375 --> 09:15.495
Bodies Change the Subject.

09:15.995 --> 09:18.775
It was written, after a mass shooting in this country.

09:19.095 --> 09:20.215
I don't remember which one,

09:20.265 --> 09:21.655
which tells you a little bit about

09:21.675 --> 09:23.335
how many mass shootings we've had.

09:23.915 --> 09:28.135
Um, and it owes a lot to my wife, who my conversation

09:28.135 --> 09:30.935
with her sort of was one of the things that started the poem

09:31.515 --> 09:35.495
in the kitchen with the kids finally asleep, A news

09:35.555 --> 09:38.095
of another shooting in the space between us.

09:39.085 --> 09:42.425
You confess, you think death might feel like giving birth,

09:43.325 --> 09:48.035
the body insistent having its way you say you'd never been

09:48.055 --> 09:52.595
so at the mercy of yourself as you were on that bed in

09:52.595 --> 09:53.995
that cloud thin gown

09:53.995 --> 09:57.955
and just the knowing it was coming, ruthless transformation.

09:58.945 --> 10:01.705
I have no good response to ruthless transformation.

10:02.005 --> 10:03.025
And so it hangs there.

10:03.025 --> 10:04.745
Above a bowl of tortilla chips

10:04.885 --> 10:07.665
and black beans, salsa we've decided will be dinner.

10:08.715 --> 10:12.975
It lingers while a reporter frames chaos as developments.

10:13.435 --> 10:16.935
Her shoulders rinsed in darkness and revolving red lights.

10:17.935 --> 10:20.575
I want to kiss you build asylum

10:20.995 --> 10:24.495
inside you let our bodies change the subject, the channel

10:24.635 --> 10:28.895
to cartoons before night pulls away down the

10:28.895 --> 10:30.015
flickering interstate.

10:30.535 --> 10:33.575
I want one ruined thing, utterly redeemed,

10:34.095 --> 10:36.535
a death toll rescinded a swastika,

10:36.725 --> 10:40.495
removed my uncle's melanoma, caught early enough to cut

10:41.095 --> 10:44.095
a beige bandaid halfway down his calf.

10:45.145 --> 10:48.085
It had looked, my aunt said like,

10:48.085 --> 10:50.005
little more than an ink spot.

10:50.995 --> 10:53.915
I didn't get nervous till it didn't wash out.

10:54.715 --> 10:57.915
Ultimately, I I, I try not to be too overdetermined about

10:58.025 --> 11:00.755
what a reader will take from,

11:00.755 --> 11:02.475
an individual poem or a collection.

11:03.055 --> 11:06.075
Um, you know, I'm not trying when I write

11:06.075 --> 11:09.635
to deliver a specific message or elicit a specific emotion.

11:10.295 --> 11:12.515
Um, just like as writers, we come

11:13.225 --> 11:15.795
from our own unique circumstances and place.

11:16.315 --> 11:18.635
I think readers are all unique and specific

11:18.655 --> 11:19.915
and kind of bring themselves

11:20.015 --> 11:21.875
to any work, any book, any poem.

11:22.335 --> 11:25.275
And so that, in a sense, in a very real tangible sense,

11:25.815 --> 11:27.235
the reader completes the poem.

11:27.695 --> 11:29.635
So I try not to be overdetermined about

11:29.785 --> 11:31.715
what they take away from it.

11:31.935 --> 11:36.425
Um, of course, once in a while I'm writing a poem that is,

11:36.685 --> 11:39.345
a direct address to somebody, you know, either my kids

11:39.445 --> 11:42.425
or my my mom or, you know, another author.

11:42.645 --> 11:44.985
And in that sense, you know, I am in the back

11:44.985 --> 11:48.145
of my mind thinking about that idea of, of,

11:48.165 --> 11:50.385
of them hearing those words eventually one day.

11:50.765 --> 11:52.665
Um, but even then, I'm still writing

11:52.665 --> 11:53.665
Toward discovery. I'm

11:53.665 --> 11:55.685
trying not to deliver a message,

11:55.865 --> 11:58.365
but think through the poem, think through these ideas,

11:58.665 --> 12:00.805
you know, the famous Em Forster quote.

12:01.065 --> 12:02.165
We, you know, how do I know

12:02.165 --> 12:03.485
what I think until I see what I've written?

12:03.705 --> 12:06.885
Of course. Um, but, you know, I think one good example of

12:06.885 --> 12:08.845
that actually from Let our Bodies Change the subject

12:09.465 --> 12:11.805
was this poem called Starfish of Mine.

12:12.065 --> 12:13.165
Um, I wrote it

12:13.165 --> 12:16.645
after a family trip to the aquarium, our local aquarium.

12:16.905 --> 12:19.165
And there there was this, starfish

12:19.165 --> 12:20.445
and some, one of the people at the

12:20.445 --> 12:21.485
aquarium was talking about them.

12:21.785 --> 12:24.765
And I found myself really fascinated by how like resilient

12:24.945 --> 12:26.485
and resourceful these starfish were.

12:26.625 --> 12:28.245
And I wound up writing a poem about them.

12:29.225 --> 12:32.765
So fast forward, someone read the book, liked the poem,

12:32.765 --> 12:34.285
posted the poem on social media,

12:34.945 --> 12:37.765
and one of the people responded to it,

12:38.275 --> 12:39.325
that they were disabled

12:39.585 --> 12:42.285
and how meaningful the poem was to them, you know,

12:42.425 --> 12:44.285
and how much it spoke to their experiences.

12:44.825 --> 12:47.245
And now this was nothing I ever intended, you know,

12:47.505 --> 12:52.085
but the poem, kind of hit upon something for them.

12:52.145 --> 12:54.925
And I think the idea of the starfish is that,

12:55.225 --> 12:56.805
if you lop off one of the spokes,

12:57.185 --> 12:58.805
not only will it sprout one back,

12:59.065 --> 13:02.125
but the very piece that's severed can grow a whole new self.

13:02.825 --> 13:05.525
And, and this spoke to them being a disabled person.

13:05.745 --> 13:07.525
And I love that, you know,

13:07.525 --> 13:10.125
that wasn't my determined outcome or impulse.

13:10.585 --> 13:13.045
Um, and I think if I'd tried to make it that way,

13:13.145 --> 13:14.205
it would've fallen flat.

13:14.825 --> 13:17.685
And so I think really the readers,

13:17.855 --> 13:20.605
bring their own experiences to their, to the poem and,

13:20.605 --> 13:21.925
and kind of complete it in that sense.

13:22.345 --> 13:26.045
Um, ultimately, I guess I hope that readers

13:27.435 --> 13:28.925
find and feel that there's a,

13:28.925 --> 13:30.845
another human being on the end of the page.

13:31.145 --> 13:34.445
Um, someone who's imperfect and searching

13:35.025 --> 13:36.285
and trying to connect.

13:37.145 --> 13:39.645
Um, and that ultimately, you know, I guess when you,

13:39.645 --> 13:40.925
when they read the book, they feel less alone.

13:41.525 --> 13:41.645
I.

00:00 - What motivates any poem for me is, kind of this search for discovery. I, I try to write toward discovery. and so for me it's that impulse to kind of articulate the world in a new or engaging or interesting way, and to kind of describe

00:16 - what it means to be alive. I think there's a lot of satisfaction in putting words to an experience or words to a memory, kind of like a puzzle piece clicking into place. with this collection, some poems began with a specific image or a specific memory or with something. my children said, you know, I have a, an 11-year-old daughter and an 8-year-old son who, they both make their way into the collection

00:41 - to their tremendous delight. They're still very happy to have themselves in these poems, and so sometimes something they'll say will trigger, a poem or an idea or something I read. for me, reading and writing are kind of simultaneous activities. If you were to see me writing it would be me with like a stack of books and me reading a lot and then responding to it. so I really like that interaction

01:04 - between reading and writing. So all those things sort of motivate the individual poems, but then that's very different from kind of taking those 50 individual poems and bringing them into make a collection, a book. that's when I start to think about voice. I try to think about theme, you know, different threads that will make it not just a collection of individual poems, but a coherent book. And so with let our Bodies change the subject,

01:30 - I realized pretty quickly that it was a book that was, knee deep in parenthood and fatherhood. and this notion of living for joy, but also being sort of haunted by the past and terrified for the future and how to raise children in that kind of world. And that, you know, the poems all go in different directions, but that, that core thread, I think was there the whole way through.

01:54 - and then it's just a matter of trying to organize the collection to make it, the best book it can be. so I guess kind of what motivated the book is being a parent, being someone who's paying attention to the world, who's constantly looking for a way to put language, to experience and, and just kind of being a, a human being. Well, the stakes are, are life and death, right? You know, you know, or love and death.

02:20 - The two great themes of, of literature. and I think for me, those themes, really expanded. The stakes really were raised by becoming a parent. for me, becoming a parent to young children, the world became this infinitely stranger and brighter and scarier place. and so I think themes of fear and protection kind of work their way through my mind and my life, and also through my poems.

02:48 - being a parent to young kids, it sort of feels like dealing with life and death is kind of an everyday occurrence. Whether your kid's learning to, you know, ride a scooter or bath time or cutting up the pieces of food so they're small. And so, you know, so that nobody chokes or, you know, baby proofing, you know, a lot of parents know that idea of baby proofing a house. So it's, it suddenly becomes a much more, you know, real

03:13 - and present danger for me. so like, that's one thing. Another thing is that with children, like they're learning the world right before your eyes. And that I find really helpful, because they constantly see the world anew. and I get like language and I think as a writer, I'm always trying to see the world anew. So like, for example, the poem

03:35 - that you referenced is the opening poem in the collection, sad rollercoaster. that poem was kind of the culmination of a summer in which my daughter questioned by incisive question came to understand in her own way what it was like, what death was. You know, she was asking these questions and getting closer and closer. And then we were at, Coney Island, and she saw these big old rollercoasters,

04:00 - in the distance, and suddenly it clicked for her. And she called it a sad rollercoaster. And in her own way, she kind of, I think, came to understand, you know, death and wanted to go home and got very upset. And I think, so the stakes, yeah, can be very much life and death, love and death. And, you know, I also think that in many cases, that's the stakes of, of being human. And I, I love that poetry is so good

04:25 - and incisive at getting to those stakes really quickly. you know, not just the stakes of what it means to be human, but doing so in action. Elizabeth Bishop says that, you know, her poems are not a thought, but the mind's thinking, you know, this, that it's, you try to, in a poem, actually show your thought. It's not like I have this thing I wanna say and then I say it, but that the poem is actually part of that process.

04:50 - Lucille Clifton, another wonderful writer, said, you know, we come to poetry, not out of what we know, but out of what we wonder. And so I think both of those kind of speak to the stakes of of being a person, a, a poet, a parent. All the above picked three. So I'll start with the one we were just talking about, the opening poem in my collection, my collection's called Let Our Bodies Change the Subject. It came out, this September from

05:16 - University of Nebraska Press. and the opening poem is that poem, sad rollercoaster, which I was just telling, talking to you about. My daughter is in the kitchen working out death. She wants to get it how it tastes and feels. Her teacher talks like it's some glittery gold sticker. Her classmates hear rumors launch it as a curse. When toys aren't shared between bites of cantaloupe, she considers what she knows, her friend's grandpa lives only in her iPad.

05:47 - Dr. Seuss passed, but keeps speaking and rhyme. We go to Queen Zoo and spot the bakish skull of a white-tailed deer tucked between rocks And the pumas enclosure. It's just for show, I explain explaining nothing that night. And the one after my daughter, dreams of bones have a lift out of her skin and try on her dresses so silly. She laughs when I ask if she's okay. Then toward the back end of summer, we head to Coney Island

06:19 - to catch a cyclones game. We buy popcorn and fries, a pop fly arcs over checkerboard grass when past the warning track the park wall, she sees a giant wooden spine. This brownish red maze traced in decay, she calls it sad rollercoaster then begs to be taken home. And the next poem I'm gonna read has actually both of my kids in it. so the whole collection was written in Queens and, and queens shows up throughout the,

06:50 - throughout the book it's called, all I've Ever Wanted, and I apologize in advance. There's a tiny little bit of singing in the poem. All I've ever wanted, the almond milk has turned flex of foul snow slink in slow liquid, not the discovery I had angled for this morning, but as my dad likes to sing, like some Jewish M**k Jagger, you can't always get what you won't, which is just what I croon to my two children, driving them up the wall, because of course, all they want is to get what they want.

07:25 - A fifth scoop of gelato to play Minecraft to their eyeballs, pixelate in their skulls. What humbling work to haul kids toward thoughtful, the kind and humankind like a foreign language on a stubborn tongue. It, even as a toddler, my son would refuse a lollipop if his sister didn't get one, still pluck an extra sticker to gift her after school. And hell, my daughter can't ride an elevator without making a new friend or some lady's day by praising her earrings, her sweater, her purse.

08:01 - My point about discovery has escaped me by now, though I know the old chorus for thwarted desire, my cereal will be dry coffee taken black. I will try against hope to be better than myself, which is all I've ever wanted and everything I need. And the third poem I'll read is actually the title poem to the collection. and we were talking earlier about themes, and one of the themes I noticed was this sort of twin impulse that we often have to both look

08:35 - and look away to bear witness and pay attention, but also to kind of avert our gaze. And how as people, we're always kind of between these two things. You know, the world is a, is a difficult place to, to bear witness to, but it's also very important to do that. And I think especially as writers, we're constantly reminding ourselves to pay attention, you know, to look, I think, it's Carrie Fountain who said that writing is the act of not giving away your attention,

09:01 - but keeping that attention with you where you are. and I love that definition because it has nothing to do with actually putting words on a page, but, just being awake and, and aware. so this poem is called Let Our Bodies Change the Subject. It was written, after a mass shooting in this country. I don't remember which one, which tells you a little bit about how many mass shootings we've had.

09:23 - and it owes a lot to my wife, who my conversation with her sort of was one of the things that started the poem in the kitchen with the kids finally asleep, A news of another shooting in the space between us. You confess, you think death might feel like giving birth, the body insistent having its way you say you'd never been so at the mercy of yourself as you were on that bed in that cloud thin gown and just the knowing it was coming, ruthless transformation. I have no good response to ruthless transformation.

10:02 - And so it hangs there. Above a bowl of tortilla chips and black beans, salsa we've decided will be dinner. It lingers while a reporter frames chaos as developments. Her shoulders rinsed in darkness and revolving red lights. I want to kiss you build asylum inside you let our bodies change the subject, the channel to cartoons before night pulls away down the flickering interstate. I want one ruined thing, utterly redeemed,

10:34 - a death toll rescinded a swastika, removed my uncle's melanoma, caught early enough to cut a beige bandaid halfway down his calf. It had looked, my aunt said like, little more than an ink spot. I didn't get nervous till it didn't wash out. Ultimately, I I, I try not to be too overdetermined about what a reader will take from, an individual poem or a collection. you know, I'm not trying when I write

11:06 - to deliver a specific message or elicit a specific emotion. just like as writers, we come from our own unique circumstances and place. I think readers are all unique and specific and kind of bring themselves to any work, any book, any poem. And so that, in a sense, in a very real tangible sense, the reader completes the poem. So I try not to be overdetermined about what they take away from it.

11:31 - of course, once in a while I'm writing a poem that is, a direct address to somebody, you know, either my kids or my my mom or, you know, another author. And in that sense, you know, I am in the back of my mind thinking about that idea of, of, of them hearing those words eventually one day. but even then, I'm still writing Toward discovery. I'm trying not to deliver a message, but think through the poem, think through these ideas,

11:58 - you know, the famous Em Forster quote. We, you know, how do I know what I think until I see what I've written? Of course. but, you know, I think one good example of that actually from Let our Bodies Change the subject was this poem called Starfish of Mine. I wrote it after a family trip to the aquarium, our local aquarium. And there there was this, starfish and some, one of the people at the

12:20 - aquarium was talking about them. And I found myself really fascinated by how like resilient and resourceful these starfish were. And I wound up writing a poem about them. So fast forward, someone read the book, liked the poem, posted the poem on social media, and one of the people responded to it, that they were disabled and how meaningful the poem was to them, you know, and how much it spoke to their experiences.

12:44 - And now this was nothing I ever intended, you know, but the poem, kind of hit upon something for them. And I think the idea of the starfish is that, if you lop off one of the spokes, not only will it sprout one back, but the very piece that's severed can grow a whole new self. And, and this spoke to them being a disabled person. And I love that, you know, that wasn't my determined outcome or impulse. and I think if I'd tried to make it that way,

13:13 - it would've fallen flat. And so I think really the readers, bring their own experiences to their, to the poem and, and kind of complete it in that sense. ultimately, I guess I hope that readers find and feel that there's a, another human being on the end of the page. someone who's imperfect and searching and trying to connect. and that ultimately, you know, I guess when you,

13:39 - when they read the book, they feel less alone. I.

Faculti AI can make mistakes