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LGBTQI+ allies in education, advocacy, activism, and participatory collaborative research

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Wendy M. Cumming-Potvin explores the alley perspective in advocating for Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender, Queer and Inter-sex (LGBTQI+) human rights across America, Canadian, and Australian educational contexts.

Image courtesy of interviewee. November 27, 2023

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This video video is a detailed account of someone's experiences and insights related to allyship, particularly in the context of LGBTQIA+ communities. The speaker shares their professional journey, beginning with a presentation on diversity in families that sparked interest in researching same-sex parented families alongside Professor Wayne Martino. They reflect on significant projects, such as the "Young and Well, CRC," which focused on mental health in youth and led to publications, a symposium, and a collaborative book.

On a personal level, the speaker recounts their childhood experiences as an ally, noting the challenges of not having the language to articulate support for LGBTQIA+ individuals, alongside the difficulties of confronting homophobic comments in school settings.

The speaker discusses definitions of allyship, acknowledging how traditional definitions primarily positioned allies as individuals from dominant groups aiding minorities, while contemporary understandings recognize the fluidity of identities and the complexity of allyship. They emphasize the importance of respect, humility, and ongoing learning in allyship, highlighting that allies do not have to be perfect but must strive to support social change and human rights.

Historical contexts such as the Stonewall riots and the involvement of diverse groups in LGBTQIA+ liberation movements are mentioned, alongside significant events like marriage equality in different countries and the role of social media in mobilizing support.

Overall, the speaker stresses the necessity of listening, acknowledging privilege, and understanding intersectionality to effectively support marginalized communities. They also discuss the evolution of practices in educational institutions, like implementing gender-neutral bathrooms and allowing non-binary identification. They conclude by acknowledging the complex nature of allyship in both personal and social contexts, and the ongoing efforts required to foster inclusive environments.

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There were two different aspects.

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The first would be, I suppose, the professional aspect,

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and that was, some of the work that I'd done.

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I had given a presentation in Canada at the University

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of Western Ontario, and the project was about

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diversity in families.

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And after that presentation,

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there were some really interesting discussion

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and, I was asked if I want, wanted to include in

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a future project, same sex parented families

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or families that included LGBTQA plus, members.

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And I was, you know, really thrilled to hear about that.

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And, so I, I worked with Professor Wayne Martino in,

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at Western University of Western Ontario.

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And we, subsequently,

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collaborated on numerous projects.

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And one of the projects that we,

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worked together on was the Young and well, CRC.

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And that was a large funded research project.

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It was funded by the Australian government

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and a consortium of universities

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and various different stakeholders.

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So through that project, some

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of the outcomes were of course, publications.

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There were peer reviewed journal articles, there's a report.

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Um, there was also a video.

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We organized a symposium for approximately 200 people,

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and we had the honor Bill Michael Kirby, fly out

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to Perth, which was amazing.

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And he gave the keynote,

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and I think it was from probably that project

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that was really around action research

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and quite an ethnographic approach.

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And, me sort of, you know, attending lots

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of different events and creating, you know, with a group

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of course, collaboratively, that symposium.

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And, I suppose from then, what was decided that,

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you know, a book would be a great outcome

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from that project as well.

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Um, and I suppose on a, on a personal level,

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creating the book, I think helped me unpack my sort

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of childhood memories of being an ally.

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Although at that point, many years ago,

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I don't think we had the language

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to describe ourselves as allies.

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So because I had, L GB LGBTQI

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or QA plus, members in my family,

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often it was just not spoken about.

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Or if there were, detrimental comments made,

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homophobic comments made at school,

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often I would turn away, turn away.

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And I probably didn't really know what to do or what to say.

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And even, I think I was devastated once when a,

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a teacher that I really respected a lot, made, you know,

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a sort of a homo homophobic comment.

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And again, I didn't have the courage to contest

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or to even approach, so I just kind of fled the classroom.

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Um, and I think I talk about that in the book.

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So I think there were kind of two,

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Levels, the professional level,

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and then that kind of flowed into the personal level.

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I suppose if we look back in time, historically, one

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of the kind of major definitions that I found

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through the literature was, Washington Evans from 1991.

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And that, definition, and,

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and there are some other definitions sort of around

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that similar, timeframe.

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Um, the, the definition tends to be,

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people from the dominant community, assisting

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or helping those from minority communities, so

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therefore it might be straight allies,

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assisting people from LGBTQA plus communities.

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And so, and it also, I think in originally

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these definitions came from the academic space

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and university spaces.

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So often it was about students, you know,

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from mi minority

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or dominant groups helping those in minority.

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So it could also be white students

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helping students of color.

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Um, but I, I think that increasingly we, we now know

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that those kinds of de definitions tend to be quite limited

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and quite narrow

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and could even be deemed, heteronormative.

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So I think we've gone beyond that now.

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And, there, there are definitions

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that are now more fluid that take into consideration that

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people from L-G-B-T-Q-I,

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plus communities can also be, allies

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to people in that space.

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And there's a lot of fluidity

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and dynamic interaction that can take place, within

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and without, so that it's not just this kind of binary,

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division between say, straight people or gay people.

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And, and so the, the terminology has expanded as well as,

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as we move through, through, the periods.

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Historically, it's someone who assists, in the

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LGBTQA plus space.

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It may be someone who, identifies as gay

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or lesbian or transgender,

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and they may be assisting people in their communities,

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but it could also be a straight ally

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who is assisting someone, in the L-G-B-T-Q-A space.

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Now, I know in universities there's training.

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I've done official training for that.

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Uh, and when we do the training, it, it's, it's mixed.

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We might have students mixed with, staff,

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and we might have, people who identify, as members

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of LGBTQ a plus communities with those

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who identify as straight.

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But I think the, the main, for me, the,

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the main point is someone that is truthful,

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who is respectful, who is humble, is not a hero,

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but is there to assist for social change

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and to support the human rights of lgbtqi,

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plus communities.

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And, I suppose having been an ally, I suppose,

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for many years now, I know

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that we don't always get it right.

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Um, we're not perfect,

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and it's really about doing the best we can

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and when we make mistakes, owning up to our mistakes

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and, I suppose asking for forgiveness

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and moving on, trying to do the best we can.

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So I suppose for me, that's what an ally is.

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And I suppose probably the, one

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of the most challenging things of being an ally is

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to actually move through,

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because often they, they've talked about different levels

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of allyship, and I'm not sure if it really is a linear way.

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Um, if, if that's the way forward is,

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is a linear perspective of looking at this,

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but often it talks about education, awareness,

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and then action.

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But I think action is sometimes perhaps the most challenging

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for people to engage with

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because it's finding those opportunities for activities

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that really allow us to be active allies.

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And that means also standing up if we hear comments

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that may be homophobic

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or if we see prejudice within organizations

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that might be systemic prejudice, for instance, it might be

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that, transgender students are not even included,

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perhaps in the way administrative roll

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call is, is announced.

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Um, that, that kind of thing.

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Or maybe, if a, a transgender student has a,

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a preference for their pronouns

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or the name that they want to be, called, then if

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that isn't happening, then we as an ally then could,

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you know, speak up, to support.

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Um, or if there are students, who are,

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identify within the LGBTQA plus communities

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who may be going through a difficult time, then with,

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they're aware that they can come

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and see us, to speak in a, in a confidential way,

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but hopefully in a supportive way.

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One of the, watershed moments is often, called,

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Stonewall, and that was in 1969 in New York.

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And often we think of the gay rights movement when we think

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of, of that sort of incident.

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But also there were allyships within that sort of event.

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Um, there were transgender women, Rivera and Johnson,

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and they were very strong in standing up against,

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police brutality, et cetera.

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Um, and ultimately though,

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however, they were, in a sense,

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sometimes eclipsed from the movement.

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And, we know that this, there,

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there can even be inequity within these minority spaces.

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So that's what I think one of, one of the,

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allyships there was with the transgender women,

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particularly those transgender women of color.

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Um, there were also, allyships

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and alliances with, the Black Panthers, in,

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in historically.

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And, and even I think 20 years later now,

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that was in the us but if we moved to Canada,

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then 20 years later when there were issues

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around the Toronto bath raids where there was considered

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to have, police brutality in Toronto,

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and actually, the police did come out

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and there was an apology made.

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But, during that time, which was a very difficult time

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for the gay community in Toronto, the women's groups

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and groups of color became allies to, many

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of the gay men who were being targeted within that kind of,

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police brutality, I guess, historically.

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Um, so those are co couple of examples.

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Um, I suppose if we look at marriage equality

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as well, then, we can, we can look at how people,

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alliances form and they can form on a political level.

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They can also form, on personal levels

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with families, et cetera.

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Um, if we look, in the, in the us

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and we look at the, marriage equality there, a lot

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of that was around the legislative project, process.

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So then it moved up into actually Supreme Court.

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So then when, when actually marriage equality was,

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deemed, you know, was recognized in 2015,

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I think a lot of, lot of the allyships there as well,

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because that was quite, not, not necessarily late,

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but 2015, there was social media.

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So there were lots of alliances that took place

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through social media where,

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because, you know, there was Twitter, Facebook,

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Instagram, et cetera.

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Whereas if we moved back to Canada when,

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marriage equality was announced, that was a, you know,

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10 years previous, it was more

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uniquely a legislative process and a national process.

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Even though, the, in the provinces,

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there were many provinces that had legislation so

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that when nationally it was announced,

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it was I think almost symbolic.

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Um, but

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because that was 2005, there wasn't,

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so much emphasis on social media, if that makes sense.

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Because I think even if we look to political, arenas,

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even when, say someone like, Barack Obama was,

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you know, first brought to power, it was one

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of the powers was social media.

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And, and again, those, friendships and,

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and the elements that we can create

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through digital social media.

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If we look back to some of those previous definitions,

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say from 1991, they are, I think,

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quite static in saying that we are either an ally.

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Um, particularly

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what I think those definitions did was eclipse the voices

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of, of those who identify as LGBTQA plus.

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So that if the research, particularly empirical research

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is often or always from the perspective of a straight ally,

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then we're not hearing the voices of those who are silenced.

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So I think it's really important to have allies

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who are also part

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and parcel of lgbtq, a plus communities,

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but also as, as many researchers

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or scholars have said, is that there can be dynamics

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and fluidity throughout, person's life so

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that our identities are not necessarily stable.

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And there could be someone who might be in,

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a straight relationship for 10 years,

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but a decade later they might, form, they might be in a,

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a gay relationship or a lesbian relationship,

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or they might, become transgender.

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They might, they might transition.

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So that doesn't take account of that fluidity in terms

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of our, I suppose, life trajectories if, if you will.

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Um, one of the definitions that I really like is one

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by Reynolds, it's still from 2010, so it's still about 10

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to 15 years old.

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But, she talks a lot about the dynamics

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and she talks also about this notion that as allies,

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allies aren't perfect, but we stand together shoulder

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to shoulder with those whom we want to assist.

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And if we look at intersectionality as well

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through scholars such as Kimberly Crenshaw,

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then we look at allyship that, so that gender

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and sexuality also intersect with, items

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or aspects such as age, geography,

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race,

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socioeconomic status, et cetera.

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So there's complexity I think in that definition as well.

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And I think that intersectionality is, is is a type

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of perspective or framework that needs to be threaded

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through any time we discuss allyship, so

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that sometimes we can be in powerful positions,

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but it's also contextual.

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The next minute we can turn

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and we might not necessarily be the most

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power person in the room.

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And also, again, as we mentioned through the trajectory

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of our lives, that can shift as well.

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First thing I've suppose I've learned, through becoming,

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as I mentioned, because I've been in this space

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and a personal family level for a really long time,

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but was probably not aware

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and didn't have the language to discuss it.

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But since I've taken, you know, trainings

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and that over, probably around more than a decade now,

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I suppose what I've learned through this is

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that the first thing is to acknowledge the privilege,

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my, my the privilege that I have,

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but also, being humble, I think,

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and listening to others, I think it's really important

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to listen to others and not to pass judgment

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and also never to assume.

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Uh, I really never as make any assumptions about people's

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gender or sexuality.

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I think that that's something,

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and I've also learned that,

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and we talked about intersectionality as well,

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and I've, I've learned that there can be people say

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for instance, from aboriginal communities who also,

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may be members of lgbtqi

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QA plus communities,

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and that these people may actually be targeted in terms

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of double discrimination, but there's also complexity there.

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So I've learned that we need to be very

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cautious in making any judgements and, and listen to others.

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Um, and I suppose the other,

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item I've learned over time is

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that social change takes a lot of time

16:17.905 --> 16:19.245
and it can be uncomfortable.

16:19.585 --> 16:21.805
So there's this sort of personal notion of time,

16:21.825 --> 16:24.325
but there's also this systemic notion of time

16:24.945 --> 16:26.885
and that systemic change can be very

16:26.885 --> 16:28.485
uncomfortable for people as well.

16:29.225 --> 16:31.045
So we have to respect that.

16:31.225 --> 16:34.005
So it's about respect as well, I suppose,

16:34.105 --> 16:35.605
as I mentioned, intersectionality.

16:35.785 --> 16:39.205
So, so I guess those are kind of the main, the main items

16:39.205 --> 16:42.685
that I learned, through allyship.

16:43.025 --> 16:46.845
The feedback I've received is more informal

16:48.105 --> 16:51.485
and, and I am part of,

16:52.045 --> 16:53.205
advisory councils

16:53.585 --> 16:57.085
and those kinds of mechanisms in the university as well.

16:57.995 --> 17:02.165
I've also been part of what is called the Athena Swan,

17:02.325 --> 17:04.885
I think that exists in the UK as well.

17:05.465 --> 17:08.765
So I was, part of the committee that,

17:09.555 --> 17:13.885
brought the university sort of on board for Athena Swan, so

17:13.885 --> 17:16.045
that we started to bring in,

17:16.385 --> 17:18.205
and of course, this is never one person,

17:18.275 --> 17:21.445
this is a large group of very highly committed people.

17:22.025 --> 17:23.965
It was really, I think, us working together.

17:24.505 --> 17:28.205
So one of, one of the items that was shifted,

17:28.955 --> 17:33.485
through the Athena one was that the, toilets,

17:33.605 --> 17:36.005
'cause one of the issues that transgender students can have

17:36.305 --> 17:40.045
is that there are not neutral gender, toilets.

17:40.425 --> 17:43.125
It can be very challenging for them to find toilets.

17:43.205 --> 17:44.605
I mean, it can be challenging for,

17:44.705 --> 17:46.045
for I suppose any student,

17:46.385 --> 17:48.645
but if there's, there's only a limited number

17:48.645 --> 17:50.260
of gender neutral toilets

17:50.260 --> 17:51.605
and they're not identified,

17:52.075 --> 17:53.525
then it can be really challenging.

17:53.665 --> 17:56.005
And we're finding that, you know, there were students that,

17:56.065 --> 17:59.445
you know, were, were trying not wanting to go to the toilet

17:59.985 --> 18:01.205
all day if they were on campus.

18:01.425 --> 18:05.445
So we made a point in, you know, one of the committees,

18:06.225 --> 18:10.645
to shift that so that now those are really well identified.

18:10.785 --> 18:12.925
And whenever there are events then

18:12.925 --> 18:14.525
that is identified in the beginning

18:14.635 --> 18:17.645
that if someone wants gender neutral toilets, that,

18:17.665 --> 18:19.605
you know, and you'd point to wherever it is.

18:20.025 --> 18:23.645
So we felt, you know, we've, we've seen just that, that

18:23.675 --> 18:25.005
that has improved.

18:25.395 --> 18:28.005
That is just a one aspect of it being improved.

18:28.705 --> 18:32.165
And, I suppose other aspects are in terms

18:32.185 --> 18:34.445
of administration, say if,

18:35.315 --> 18:37.365
transgender students aren't counted,

18:37.715 --> 18:38.805
then it's really difficult

18:38.825 --> 18:41.965
to find out information about them and what their needs are.

18:42.115 --> 18:44.925
Because as an educator, I always,

18:46.375 --> 18:49.005
prioritize a student center approach

18:49.185 --> 18:51.045
to pedagogy and to education.

18:51.825 --> 18:52.965
So,

18:53.345 --> 18:56.125
if we don't know anything about our transgender students

18:56.125 --> 18:59.765
because they're not officially on, administration roles

18:59.865 --> 19:03.325
or in surveys and that kind of thing, well now we've shifted

19:03.395 --> 19:07.725
that so that, people can identify as non-binary on a,

19:07.805 --> 19:09.645
a lot of the administration,

19:10.115 --> 19:11.645
enrollments and that kind of thing.

19:12.025 --> 19:16.005
And so we, we we're hearing that, you know,

19:16.205 --> 19:18.005
students are happy about that, that their,

19:18.255 --> 19:19.845
their voice is being counted.

19:20.305 --> 19:22.845
So if there's a survey and you know, you, you feel

19:22.845 --> 19:24.365
that you are not being counted well, then

19:24.365 --> 19:26.645
that can be really challenging to have your voice heard.

19:27.045 --> 19:29.725
I suppose I should mention as well to start with is

19:29.725 --> 19:32.645
that terminology I think is quite American.

19:33.465 --> 19:37.605
Um, I suppose that the term prom comes from the US

19:38.115 --> 19:40.005
When I lived in Canada, we,

19:40.725 --> 19:42.245
I believe called it the graduation.

19:42.755 --> 19:46.165
Here we call it, you know, an end of year ball

19:46.265 --> 19:48.405
or there's very various different terms.

19:49.185 --> 19:53.965
But I suppose that the prom phenomenon is complex

19:54.065 --> 19:58.565
and it can be a wonderful event for perhaps some students,

19:58.755 --> 20:00.845
many students, but not all students.

20:01.745 --> 20:05.805
And it is also, I suppose if we look at some scholars such

20:05.805 --> 20:09.245
as best who's called it a social archetype

20:09.715 --> 20:11.045
that is very traditional.

20:11.305 --> 20:14.525
So what it tends to be is, you know, setting students up

20:15.025 --> 20:17.845
to move into their adult lives,

20:18.465 --> 20:22.085
but often it is in a binary way, so that if we look at, say,

20:22.105 --> 20:25.165
the way proms are set up, you would have the,

20:25.345 --> 20:29.525
the young men would be, you know, wearing a tuxedo, pan,

20:29.545 --> 20:31.365
you know, pants, suits and tuxedo.

20:31.625 --> 20:34.725
And the, the young women would be wearing, you know,

20:34.725 --> 20:38.445
beautiful ball gown, would have their makeup done.

20:38.585 --> 20:41.685
The, the, the beauty, the beauty treatments, the, the, the,

20:41.705 --> 20:44.125
the, the, the browsing, the tanning, the everything,

20:44.185 --> 20:45.285
the nails, everything else.

20:45.865 --> 20:49.365
So it's setting people up, I suppose, for narrow

20:49.785 --> 20:54.365
and normative standards, I suppose, of beauty and,

20:54.665 --> 20:58.445
and binary standards for gender and sexual orientation.

20:58.825 --> 21:01.845
And so I suppose what has happened in the past,

21:02.195 --> 21:05.845
over many decades is that there have been students

21:05.985 --> 21:08.725
who have started to contest and question

21:09.265 --> 21:12.245
and say, well, I would like to come to the ball as well,

21:12.745 --> 21:16.645
but I would like to, I, I, I'm, I'm a I'm a young woman.

21:16.845 --> 21:20.045
I would like to bring my, female partner,

21:20.625 --> 21:23.085
or, you know, a a young man would like to bring,

21:23.345 --> 21:24.405
you know, his boyfriend.

21:24.945 --> 21:27.725
And then of course there can be,

21:28.115 --> 21:29.765
there's resistance from the schools.

21:30.465 --> 21:32.445
So what has happened in the past is that

21:32.755 --> 21:36.965
that often these students have had to individually then,

21:37.505 --> 21:38.845
resist through legislation.

21:39.505 --> 21:41.765
Um, and of course with their allies, their,

21:41.815 --> 21:44.245
often their allies might be their parents or their friends,

21:44.945 --> 21:49.765
but one of, and, and often these, students will then,

21:50.185 --> 21:53.045
find they'll, there'll be a resolution.

21:53.345 --> 21:56.325
And often the, the schools are found to be in breach of,

21:56.465 --> 21:58.445
of the students', human rights.

21:59.465 --> 22:01.965
But the issue with this is

22:01.965 --> 22:06.365
that if this is only an individual, legislation,

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it almost becomes piecemeal

22:08.505 --> 22:13.445
and it also puts that student in a very vulnerable,

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position or can put

22:14.765 --> 22:16.325
that student in a very vulnerable position

22:16.325 --> 22:19.605
because it really makes them very visible so

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that they can also be more vulnerable to more prejudice

22:22.905 --> 22:24.125
and to more discrimination.

22:24.785 --> 22:29.565
So what we're seeing more recently is more social groups

22:30.185 --> 22:33.445
and allies and, young members

22:33.545 --> 22:37.805
of L-G-B-T-Q-A, communities themselves,

22:38.445 --> 22:42.365
creating alternative balls that may, may be for,

22:43.245 --> 22:45.725
students who have that preference, who would go to those.

22:46.385 --> 22:49.285
Or if there is an issue with one student,

22:49.995 --> 22:51.845
then the class will stand up

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and they will, do things such as,

22:54.865 --> 22:56.965
and we talked about that a a while back,

22:57.265 --> 22:58.485
the power of social media.

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They will actually go in

22:59.685 --> 23:02.485
and do a funded, you know, fund campaign

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or an online petition.

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And the power of the young people nowadays is really

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quite incredible as well.

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So we'll see that mobilization coming through, allyship,

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for, fellow students

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or often we'll see, parents can be very strong allies

23:20.905 --> 23:22.525
as well in this space.

23:23.145 --> 23:25.645
So I think it's a complex phenomenon

23:26.185 --> 23:29.405
and, really fascinating to look at over the decades and,

23:29.465 --> 23:32.405
and also to look at how this has played out in

23:32.405 --> 23:34.085
different countries.

23:34.505 --> 23:37.645
And if we look at historically as well, I think

23:37.755 --> 23:40.845
with the prom, it takes us back to the, you know, sort

23:40.845 --> 23:44.605
of 18th, 19th century when, sort of well,

23:44.605 --> 23:48.125
to do families brought, you know, it was, it was a sort

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of bringing out of their, young women

23:51.305 --> 23:53.445
who were deemed then ready to be married,

23:54.025 --> 23:57.045
and then they would be presented to certain number of,

23:57.475 --> 24:02.125
gentlemen, you know, of, of what they call ami of from,

24:02.125 --> 24:03.165
from good families.

24:03.905 --> 24:07.525
And so again, this brings us back to that notion of marriage

24:07.665 --> 24:09.405
as a commercial enterprise.

24:10.145 --> 24:13.445
And I suppose it links then heteronormativity

24:14.235 --> 24:17.245
with misogyny, I suppose, and with sexism.

24:17.305 --> 24:20.565
So I think if we look back historically, there's some

24:20.855 --> 24:22.725
concerning aspects to that as well.

00:00 - There were two different aspects. The first would be, I suppose, the professional aspect, and that was, some of the work that I'd done. I had given a presentation in Canada at the University of Western Ontario, and the project was about diversity in families.

00:18 - And after that presentation, there were some really interesting discussion and, I was asked if I want, wanted to include in a future project, same sex parented families or families that included LGBTQA plus, members. And I was, you know, really thrilled to hear about that. And, so I, I worked with Professor Wayne Martino in, at Western University of Western Ontario. And we, subsequently, collaborated on numerous projects.

00:50 - And one of the projects that we, worked together on was the Young and well, CRC. And that was a large funded research project. It was funded by the Australian government and a consortium of universities and various different stakeholders. So through that project, some of the outcomes were of course, publications. There were peer reviewed journal articles, there's a report. there was also a video.

01:16 - We organized a symposium for approximately 200 people, and we had the honor Bill Michael Kirby, fly out to Perth, which was amazing. And he gave the keynote, and I think it was from probably that project that was really around action research and quite an ethnographic approach. And, me sort of, you know, attending lots of different events and creating, you know, with a group of course, collaboratively, that symposium.

01:47 - And, I suppose from then, what was decided that, you know, a book would be a great outcome from that project as well. and I suppose on a, on a personal level, creating the book, I think helped me unpack my sort of childhood memories of being an ally. Although at that point, many years ago, I don't think we had the language to describe ourselves as allies. So because I had, L GB LGBTQI

02:17 - or QA plus, members in my family, often it was just not spoken about. Or if there were, detrimental comments made, homophobic comments made at school, often I would turn away, turn away. And I probably didn't really know what to do or what to say. And even, I think I was devastated once when a, a teacher that I really respected a lot, made, you know, a sort of a homo homophobic comment. And again, I didn't have the courage to contest

02:51 - or to even approach, so I just kind of fled the classroom. and I think I talk about that in the book. So I think there were kind of two, Levels, the professional level, and then that kind of flowed into the personal level. I suppose if we look back in time, historically, one of the kind of major definitions that I found through the literature was, Washington Evans from 1991. And that, definition, and, and there are some other definitions sort of around

03:21 - that similar, timeframe. the, the definition tends to be, people from the dominant community, assisting or helping those from minority communities, so therefore it might be straight allies, assisting people from LGBTQA plus communities. And so, and it also, I think in originally these definitions came from the academic space and university spaces. So often it was about students, you know,

03:55 - from mi minority or dominant groups helping those in minority. So it could also be white students helping students of color. but I, I think that increasingly we, we now know that those kinds of de definitions tend to be quite limited and quite narrow and could even be deemed, heteronormative. So I think we've gone beyond that now. And, there, there are definitions

04:22 - that are now more fluid that take into consideration that people from L-G-B-T-Q-I, plus communities can also be, allies to people in that space. And there's a lot of fluidity and dynamic interaction that can take place, within and without, so that it's not just this kind of binary, division between say, straight people or gay people. And, and so the, the terminology has expanded as well as, as we move through, through, the periods.

04:58 - Historically, it's someone who assists, in the LGBTQA plus space. It may be someone who, identifies as gay or lesbian or transgender, and they may be assisting people in their communities, but it could also be a straight ally who is assisting someone, in the L-G-B-T-Q-A space. Now, I know in universities there's training. I've done official training for that. and when we do the training, it, it's, it's mixed.

05:33 - We might have students mixed with, staff, and we might have, people who identify, as members of LGBTQ a plus communities with those who identify as straight. But I think the, the main, for me, the, the main point is someone that is truthful, who is respectful, who is humble, is not a hero, but is there to assist for social change and to support the human rights of lgbtqi, plus communities.

06:08 - And, I suppose having been an ally, I suppose, for many years now, I know that we don't always get it right. we're not perfect, and it's really about doing the best we can and when we make mistakes, owning up to our mistakes and, I suppose asking for forgiveness and moving on, trying to do the best we can. So I suppose for me, that's what an ally is. And I suppose probably the, one

06:37 - of the most challenging things of being an ally is to actually move through, because often they, they've talked about different levels of allyship, and I'm not sure if it really is a linear way. if, if that's the way forward is, is a linear perspective of looking at this, but often it talks about education, awareness, and then action. But I think action is sometimes perhaps the most challenging for people to engage with

07:04 - because it's finding those opportunities for activities that really allow us to be active allies. And that means also standing up if we hear comments that may be homophobic or if we see prejudice within organizations that might be systemic prejudice, for instance, it might be that, transgender students are not even included, perhaps in the way administrative roll call is, is announced. that, that kind of thing.

07:35 - Or maybe, if a, a transgender student has a, a preference for their pronouns or the name that they want to be, called, then if that isn't happening, then we as an ally then could, you know, speak up, to support. or if there are students, who are, identify within the LGBTQA plus communities who may be going through a difficult time, then with, they're aware that they can come and see us, to speak in a, in a confidential way,

08:09 - but hopefully in a supportive way. One of the, watershed moments is often, called, Stonewall, and that was in 1969 in New York. And often we think of the gay rights movement when we think of, of that sort of incident. But also there were allyships within that sort of event. there were transgender women, Rivera and Johnson, and they were very strong in standing up against, police brutality, et cetera. and ultimately though,

08:45 - however, they were, in a sense, sometimes eclipsed from the movement. And, we know that this, there, there can even be inequity within these minority spaces. So that's what I think one of, one of the, allyships there was with the transgender women, particularly those transgender women of color. there were also, allyships and alliances with, the Black Panthers, in, in historically.

09:13 - And, and even I think 20 years later now, that was in the us but if we moved to Canada, then 20 years later when there were issues around the Toronto bath raids where there was considered to have, police brutality in Toronto, and actually, the police did come out and there was an apology made. But, during that time, which was a very difficult time for the gay community in Toronto, the women's groups and groups of color became allies to, many

09:45 - of the gay men who were being targeted within that kind of, police brutality, I guess, historically. so those are co couple of examples. I suppose if we look at marriage equality as well, then, we can, we can look at how people, alliances form and they can form on a political level. They can also form, on personal levels with families, et cetera. if we look, in the, in the us and we look at the, marriage equality there, a lot

10:25 - of that was around the legislative project, process. So then it moved up into actually Supreme Court. So then when, when actually marriage equality was, deemed, you know, was recognized in 2015, I think a lot of, lot of the allyships there as well, because that was quite, not, not necessarily late, but 2015, there was social media. So there were lots of alliances that took place through social media where, because, you know, there was Twitter, Facebook,

10:57 - Instagram, et cetera. Whereas if we moved back to Canada when, marriage equality was announced, that was a, you know, 10 years previous, it was more uniquely a legislative process and a national process. Even though, the, in the provinces, there were many provinces that had legislation so that when nationally it was announced, it was I think almost symbolic. but

11:23 - because that was 2005, there wasn't, so much emphasis on social media, if that makes sense. Because I think even if we look to political, arenas, even when, say someone like, Barack Obama was, you know, first brought to power, it was one of the powers was social media. And, and again, those, friendships and, and the elements that we can create through digital social media. If we look back to some of those previous definitions,

11:54 - say from 1991, they are, I think, quite static in saying that we are either an ally. particularly what I think those definitions did was eclipse the voices of, of those who identify as LGBTQA plus. So that if the research, particularly empirical research is often or always from the perspective of a straight ally, then we're not hearing the voices of those who are silenced. So I think it's really important to have allies who are also part

12:32 - and parcel of lgbtq, a plus communities, but also as, as many researchers or scholars have said, is that there can be dynamics and fluidity throughout, person's life so that our identities are not necessarily stable. And there could be someone who might be in, a straight relationship for 10 years, but a decade later they might, form, they might be in a, a gay relationship or a lesbian relationship, or they might, become transgender.

13:06 - They might, they might transition. So that doesn't take account of that fluidity in terms of our, I suppose, life trajectories if, if you will. one of the definitions that I really like is one by Reynolds, it's still from 2010, so it's still about 10 to 15 years old. But, she talks a lot about the dynamics and she talks also about this notion that as allies, allies aren't perfect, but we stand together shoulder to shoulder with those whom we want to assist.

13:40 - And if we look at intersectionality as well through scholars such as Kimberly Crenshaw, then we look at allyship that, so that gender and sexuality also intersect with, items or aspects such as age, geography, race, socioeconomic status, et cetera. So there's complexity I think in that definition as well. And I think that intersectionality is, is is a type of perspective or framework that needs to be threaded

14:15 - through any time we discuss allyship, so that sometimes we can be in powerful positions, but it's also contextual. The next minute we can turn and we might not necessarily be the most power person in the room. And also, again, as we mentioned through the trajectory of our lives, that can shift as well. First thing I've suppose I've learned, through becoming, as I mentioned, because I've been in this space

14:44 - and a personal family level for a really long time, but was probably not aware and didn't have the language to discuss it. But since I've taken, you know, trainings and that over, probably around more than a decade now, I suppose what I've learned through this is that the first thing is to acknowledge the privilege, my, my the privilege that I have, but also, being humble, I think, and listening to others, I think it's really important

15:19 - to listen to others and not to pass judgment and also never to assume. I really never as make any assumptions about people's gender or sexuality. I think that that's something, and I've also learned that, and we talked about intersectionality as well, and I've, I've learned that there can be people say for instance, from aboriginal communities who also, may be members of lgbtqi

15:50 - QA plus communities, and that these people may actually be targeted in terms of double discrimination, but there's also complexity there. So I've learned that we need to be very cautious in making any judgements and, and listen to others. and I suppose the other, item I've learned over time is that social change takes a lot of time and it can be uncomfortable. So there's this sort of personal notion of time,

16:21 - but there's also this systemic notion of time and that systemic change can be very uncomfortable for people as well. So we have to respect that. So it's about respect as well, I suppose, as I mentioned, intersectionality. So, so I guess those are kind of the main, the main items that I learned, through allyship. The feedback I've received is more informal and, and I am part of,

16:52 - advisory councils and those kinds of mechanisms in the university as well. I've also been part of what is called the Athena Swan, I think that exists in the UK as well. So I was, part of the committee that, brought the university sort of on board for Athena Swan, so that we started to bring in, and of course, this is never one person, this is a large group of very highly committed people. It was really, I think, us working together.

17:24 - So one of, one of the items that was shifted, through the Athena one was that the, toilets, 'cause one of the issues that transgender students can have is that there are not neutral gender, toilets. It can be very challenging for them to find toilets. I mean, it can be challenging for, for I suppose any student, but if there's, there's only a limited number of gender neutral toilets and they're not identified,

17:52 - then it can be really challenging. And we're finding that, you know, there were students that, you know, were, were trying not wanting to go to the toilet all day if they were on campus. So we made a point in, you know, one of the committees, to shift that so that now those are really well identified. And whenever there are events then that is identified in the beginning that if someone wants gender neutral toilets, that, you know, and you'd point to wherever it is.

18:20 - So we felt, you know, we've, we've seen just that, that that has improved. That is just a one aspect of it being improved. And, I suppose other aspects are in terms of administration, say if, transgender students aren't counted, then it's really difficult to find out information about them and what their needs are. Because as an educator, I always, prioritize a student center approach

18:49 - to pedagogy and to education. So, if we don't know anything about our transgender students because they're not officially on, administration roles or in surveys and that kind of thing, well now we've shifted that so that, people can identify as non-binary on a, a lot of the administration, enrollments and that kind of thing. And so we, we we're hearing that, you know, students are happy about that, that their,

19:18 - their voice is being counted. So if there's a survey and you know, you, you feel that you are not being counted well, then that can be really challenging to have your voice heard. I suppose I should mention as well to start with is that terminology I think is quite American. I suppose that the term prom comes from the US When I lived in Canada, we, I believe called it the graduation. Here we call it, you know, an end of year ball

19:46 - or there's very various different terms. But I suppose that the prom phenomenon is complex and it can be a wonderful event for perhaps some students, many students, but not all students. And it is also, I suppose if we look at some scholars such as best who's called it a social archetype that is very traditional. So what it tends to be is, you know, setting students up to move into their adult lives, but often it is in a binary way, so that if we look at, say,

20:22 - the way proms are set up, you would have the, the young men would be, you know, wearing a tuxedo, pan, you know, pants, suits and tuxedo. And the, the young women would be wearing, you know, beautiful ball gown, would have their makeup done. The, the, the beauty, the beauty treatments, the, the, the, the, the, the browsing, the tanning, the everything, the nails, everything else. So it's setting people up, I suppose, for narrow and normative standards, I suppose, of beauty and,

20:54 - and binary standards for gender and sexual orientation. And so I suppose what has happened in the past, over many decades is that there have been students who have started to contest and question and say, well, I would like to come to the ball as well, but I would like to, I, I, I'm, I'm a I'm a young woman. I would like to bring my, female partner, or, you know, a a young man would like to bring, you know, his boyfriend. And then of course there can be,

21:28 - there's resistance from the schools. So what has happened in the past is that that often these students have had to individually then, resist through legislation. and of course with their allies, their, often their allies might be their parents or their friends, but one of, and, and often these, students will then, find they'll, there'll be a resolution. And often the, the schools are found to be in breach of, of the students', human rights.

21:59 - But the issue with this is that if this is only an individual, legislation, it almost becomes piecemeal and it also puts that student in a very vulnerable, position or can put that student in a very vulnerable position because it really makes them very visible so that they can also be more vulnerable to more prejudice and to more discrimination. So what we're seeing more recently is more social groups

22:30 - and allies and, young members of L-G-B-T-Q-A, communities themselves, creating alternative balls that may, may be for, students who have that preference, who would go to those. Or if there is an issue with one student, then the class will stand up and they will, do things such as, and we talked about that a a while back, the power of social media. They will actually go in

22:59 - and do a funded, you know, fund campaign or an online petition. And the power of the young people nowadays is really quite incredible as well. So we'll see that mobilization coming through, allyship, for, fellow students or often we'll see, parents can be very strong allies as well in this space. So I think it's a complex phenomenon and, really fascinating to look at over the decades and,

23:29 - and also to look at how this has played out in different countries. And if we look at historically as well, I think with the prom, it takes us back to the, you know, sort of 18th, 19th century when, sort of well, to do families brought, you know, it was, it was a sort of bringing out of their, young women who were deemed then ready to be married, and then they would be presented to certain number of, gentlemen, you know, of, of what they call ami of from,

24:02 - from good families. And so again, this brings us back to that notion of marriage as a commercial enterprise. And I suppose it links then heteronormativity with misogyny, I suppose, and with sexism. So I think if we look back historically, there's some concerning aspects to that as well.

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