Popular in History

Arts and Humanities

Titus Quinctius Flamininus’ “Italian triumph”

McGill University Michael Fronda

Arts and Humanities

Lincoln and the Jews

Brandeis University Jonathan Sarna

Arts and Humanities

Early Modern Natural Law Theories

University of Copenhagen Knud Haakonssen

Arts and Humanities

Phoenicians Among Others: Why Migrants Mattered in the Ancient Mediterranean

University of California San Diego Denise Demetriou

Arts and Humanities

The loneliness of leadership

University of Liverpool Elaine Chalus

Arts and Humanities

La Güera Rodríguez

Brandeis University Silvia Arrom

Arts and Humanities

The Myth of Continuity in American Gun Culture

University of California Berkeley Brian DeLay

The Police Surgeon, Medico-Legal Networks and Criminal Investigation in Victorian Scotland

View more insights in Arts and Humanities - History - British History

View more figures from University of Western Australia

View the page of Kelly-Ann Couzens

Read the Study

Kelly Couzens discusses the career and life of Scottish police surgeon—Henry Duncan Littlejohn

Image courtesy of interviewee. May 23, 2024

Generating Workspace

Export as PDF

This video video discusses a research project stemming from the author's doctoral thesis at the University of Western Australia, which focused on the history of forensic medicine in 19th century Edinburgh, particularly the contributions of Professor Henry Littlejohn. Littlejohn, a prominent figure, served as a police surgeon for over five decades, a role that intertwined his medical expertise with law enforcement and public health.

The narrative describes his significant involvement in criminal cases, public health reports, and his eventual rise to a knighthood and a prestigious faculty position at the University of Edinburgh. Despite his influential role, Littlejohn remains somewhat overlooked in the history of forensic medicine. The author highlights how Littlejohn's work exemplified the practical aspects of forensic medicine, emphasizing his collaborations with police and legal professionals, as well as the challenges he faced in addressing forensic matters within the evolving legal context of the time.

The author aims to explore more about the intricate relationships between forensic medicine and law enforcement, particularly how these connections shaped criminal investigations and prosecution processes. The research reveals that forensic work during this period was not highly specialized but heavily reliant on practical experience and collaboration among various medical and legal practitioners.

In summary, the text outlines the author’s ongoing research into Henry Littlejohn’s career, aiming to shed light on the development of forensic medicine and its relationship with the legal system in 19th century Edinburgh, while emphasizing the importance of understanding historical practices through detailed case records and collaborations.

Language:

Export as PDF

Export as PDF
Here are some key quotes extracted from the video you , which reflects the speaker’s exploration of Henry Littlejohn’s contributions to forensic medicine in 19th century Edinburgh:

1. **Introduction to the Research**:
- "The broad convideo of this research came out of my doctoral thesis that I started in 2014... I was really interested in exploring...the history of forensic medicine in 19th century Edinburgh."

2. **Discovering Littlejohn**:
- "What I discovered when I was doing my thesis was just how prolific an expert he was."

3. **Littlejohn's Role**:
- "I think what I learned through doing that research and...digging into Littlejohn was just how much of his profile was linked in with his role as a police surgeon."

4. **Littlejohn's Influence**:
- "In 1865, he published this really influential report on the sanitary health of Edinburgh... scholars have really sort of borne out that sort of side of things."

5. **Career Overview**:
- "He first becomes police surgeon and applies for this job in his late twenties in 1855."

6. **The Demands of the Role**:
- "This is a very demanding role... he works as the surgeon who not only attends to any complaints that police might have as to their physical health and fitness... but he also attends to a massive number of things."

7. **Longevity of Service**:
- "He actually does this position for over five decades."

8. **Professional Development**:
- "He uses this position very successfully... he becomes a prolific medical expert testifying in criminal courts."

9. **Training for Medical Students**:
- "His key emphasis is on the practice of forensic medicine...to be good at it as a medical student, you have to be exposed to it."

10. **Interplay between Professions**:
- "One of the things that's really interesting in this period...increasing numbers of medical experts being called into courtrooms."

11. **Collaboration**:
- "He builds these collaborations with lots of different groups... this person's doing this and this having this impact."

12. **Key Insights on Forensic Work**:
- "Forensic work was done... it's not an atomized activity that...to bring something from when a body is discovered... to a prosecution at trial is quite a long process."

13. **Future Research Directions**:
- "I hope...to excavate these relationships more...and hopefully just maybe even find new things."

These quotes encapsulate the speaker's exploration of Henry Littlejohn's impact on forensic medicine, his career as a police surgeon, and the complexities of his role within the medical and legal communities of 19th century Edinburgh.

Export as PDF

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

00:00.000 --> 00:02.005
The broad context of this research came out

00:02.005 --> 00:04.965
of my doctoral thesis that I started in 2014,

00:04.965 --> 00:06.605
back at the University of Western Australia.

00:07.225 --> 00:10.125
And I was really interested in exploring, the history

00:10.125 --> 00:12.565
of forensic medicine in 19th century Edinburgh.

00:12.825 --> 00:15.805
And that involved looking at, a number of sort

00:15.805 --> 00:18.445
of leading medical experts that had hold, held the position

00:18.445 --> 00:19.805
of medical, chair

00:19.805 --> 00:22.125
of medical jurisprudence at the University of Edinburgh.

00:22.725 --> 00:25.025
And one of these was Professor Henry Littlejohn.

00:25.125 --> 00:26.545
And that was sort of how I started

00:26.565 --> 00:29.545
to find out a little bit about him and about his research.

00:29.645 --> 00:33.065
And what I discovered when I was doing my thesis was just

00:33.165 --> 00:34.825
how prolific an expert he was.

00:35.165 --> 00:39.265
So he was in so many criminal cases,

00:39.445 --> 00:40.825
he was constantly in the press.

00:41.165 --> 00:43.905
Um, almost every day there'd be reports about his work,

00:43.905 --> 00:46.505
whether it was to do with public health criminal cases

00:47.165 --> 00:49.905
or his involvement on some sort of organizational group.

00:50.365 --> 00:52.105
And so I became really sort of intrigued

00:52.125 --> 00:53.265
by this man through that way.

00:54.215 --> 00:58.155
Um, and I think what I learned through doing that research

00:58.175 --> 01:00.555
and through sort of digging into Littlejohn was just

01:00.895 --> 01:03.675
how much of his profile was linked in

01:03.675 --> 01:04.955
with his role as a police surgeon.

01:05.695 --> 01:08.155
And that's sort of what I really talk about in the book

01:08.215 --> 01:10.715
and sort of, or in the book chapter rather,

01:10.735 --> 01:13.635
and I try to bring out through discussion is sort of how,

01:14.055 --> 01:17.115
how that role was really central with what he was doing.

01:17.255 --> 01:18.595
And about Little John himself.

01:18.735 --> 01:22.275
So Little John was, he's a very interesting sort

01:22.275 --> 01:23.435
of enigmatic fit figure,

01:23.575 --> 01:26.715
but in a lot of ways I think he's been quite sort of,

01:26.715 --> 01:29.195
forgotten in some ways in the history of forensics,

01:29.195 --> 01:30.435
or certainly neglected, we would say.

01:31.015 --> 01:34.155
Um, a lot of the sort of leaning, leading work that is sort

01:34.155 --> 01:36.235
of looked at his contribution to Edinburgh medicine

01:36.815 --> 01:39.435
has really explored his role within public health.

01:39.815 --> 01:42.075
And, in 1865,

01:42.215 --> 01:44.595
he published this really influential report on the

01:44.595 --> 01:45.755
sanitary health of Edinburgh.

01:46.135 --> 01:49.115
And so scholars like Paul, Paul, Paul Laxton,

01:49.115 --> 01:51.315
Richard Rogers, Brenda White, you know,

01:51.415 --> 01:53.635
and Ann Crowler have really sort of born out

01:53.635 --> 01:54.715
that sort of side of thing.

01:55.565 --> 01:58.465
But I was quite interested to see, you know, given how

01:58.565 --> 02:02.185
how important he was as a forensic expert was coming through

02:02.205 --> 02:05.905
so strongly for me, that side of that side of

02:05.905 --> 02:07.305
that career and sort of flagged that up.

02:07.885 --> 02:09.065
And, you know,

02:09.085 --> 02:11.585
he had quite an interesting career in the sense of,

02:11.965 --> 02:14.225
you know, he was your typical Edinburgh doctor, you know,

02:14.225 --> 02:15.225
born and bred in the city.

02:15.805 --> 02:17.385
Um, you know, had a father

02:17.485 --> 02:19.585
who was a bakery confectioner in the city.

02:19.685 --> 02:24.145
He was educated at the university, did the typical jaunt

02:24.145 --> 02:26.225
that so many medical students do off the continent

02:26.225 --> 02:28.305
to get further training after he qualified.

02:28.805 --> 02:29.905
And then he came back

02:30.165 --> 02:33.225
and he wasn't necessarily going to become a forensic doctor.

02:33.285 --> 02:35.905
He came back and he went to one of the border towns

02:35.905 --> 02:38.705
and, border towns called,

02:38.845 --> 02:42.135
to take up private practice for some unknown reason.

02:42.325 --> 02:45.015
It's not really clear why he seems to sort

02:45.015 --> 02:46.975
of change very early in his career

02:47.115 --> 02:49.895
and decides that he's gonna actually move back to the city

02:49.895 --> 02:52.735
of Edinburgh and pursue post public based posts.

02:52.735 --> 02:55.735
So whether that's police, surgeon, medical roles,

02:55.735 --> 02:58.535
affiliations with ho hospitals, et cetera, et cetera.

02:59.185 --> 03:01.165
And so he first becomes police surgeon

03:01.505 --> 03:05.365
and applies for this job in his late twenties in 1855.

03:05.865 --> 03:08.495
And as I sort of bear out in the article,

03:08.495 --> 03:10.535
there's a little bit of sort of scandal around this

03:10.635 --> 03:12.655
and about whether there was a degree of nepotism

03:12.655 --> 03:15.495
and family connections that got him into this role.

03:16.395 --> 03:18.455
Um, and that probably is highly likely

03:18.455 --> 03:19.615
because one

03:19.615 --> 03:21.735
of the things you really learn about Enbr medicine in this

03:21.735 --> 03:24.535
period is, is how much connection,

03:25.035 --> 03:26.695
in the learned professions mattered

03:26.695 --> 03:29.295
and who you knew really mattered in, in shaping career.

03:30.665 --> 03:32.285
But he takes up this role of police surgeon,

03:32.465 --> 03:34.005
and this is a very demanding role.

03:34.155 --> 03:37.325
This is, again, something I really try to pick up in this,

03:37.385 --> 03:41.845
in this chapter is, is what was sort of the practical work

03:41.845 --> 03:42.845
of doing police work.

03:42.945 --> 03:44.485
And that's something I'm really interested in.

03:44.905 --> 03:46.925
So he's literally employed by the police.

03:47.035 --> 03:49.765
He's the sort of employed by, the police commission,

03:50.225 --> 03:53.725
and he works as the, the surgeon who not only attends

03:53.725 --> 03:56.965
to any complaints that, police might have as

03:56.965 --> 03:58.365
to their physical health and fitness,

03:58.545 --> 04:01.205
so say if they're injured on the job or assaulted

04:01.305 --> 04:02.885
or attacked or things like that.

04:03.625 --> 04:07.405
But he also attends to a massive number of things.

04:07.865 --> 04:10.485
Um, everything from if there's a call for a sudden

04:10.485 --> 04:12.925
or suspicious death, he's the medical man in city

04:12.925 --> 04:17.565
of Edinburgh to go on board, examining,

04:17.745 --> 04:19.645
people who may be mentally unsound,

04:20.175 --> 04:24.805
check their mental competency, examining women,

04:25.025 --> 04:28.045
so, in women in case cases of sexual assault as well.

04:28.545 --> 04:31.565
Um, so he's just got a really broad remit of what he does,

04:32.415 --> 04:33.835
and it's even more broad

04:33.975 --> 04:35.715
and more kind of interesting when you sort

04:35.715 --> 04:37.155
of dig into sources and cases

04:37.255 --> 04:39.435
and you kind of get a sense of, of what

04:39.435 --> 04:41.555
that work was like in a sort of daily sense.

04:42.495 --> 04:45.155
So he actually does this position for over five decades,

04:45.365 --> 04:48.435
which I've never heard of it being from pit anywhere else.

04:48.525 --> 04:52.195
Right. And that's one of the curiosities about him is

04:52.195 --> 04:55.515
because, a lot of roles like, you know, a lot

04:55.515 --> 04:57.795
of police surgeons in, in England

04:57.795 --> 05:00.635
and elsewhere, they tend to be really short term posts.

05:00.635 --> 05:01.715
And the job is not something

05:01.715 --> 05:02.915
that people really wanna stay in

05:02.915 --> 05:05.755
because it's not pleasant, it's not high prestige,

05:05.825 --> 05:09.555
it's dealing with, you know, criminals.

05:09.555 --> 05:10.915
It's dealing with dead bodies.

05:11.105 --> 05:12.595
It's not something where you're going

05:12.595 --> 05:14.955
to traditionally have a very lucrative career

05:15.055 --> 05:16.235
in the medical profession.

05:17.105 --> 05:21.925
Um, but he uses this, uses his role within the,

05:22.025 --> 05:23.885
the Edinburgh, city police

05:24.585 --> 05:27.445
and uses all of the sort of, I suppose, networks

05:27.445 --> 05:29.325
that it opens up to him within medicine,

05:29.785 --> 05:32.405
but also also within the legal community in Edinburgh

05:32.405 --> 05:33.765
to kind of build a very dynamic

05:34.305 --> 05:36.125
and very influential career in the city.

05:36.585 --> 05:38.325
And I think when he retires, he's in his 80.

05:38.545 --> 05:40.045
So this is a man that is working

05:40.345 --> 05:42.365
for an exceptionally long time in his life.

05:43.105 --> 05:46.765
Um, and you know, he uses this position very successfully.

05:46.905 --> 05:49.645
So he become not only, you know,

05:49.805 --> 05:53.045
a prolific medical expert testifying in criminal courts,

05:53.275 --> 05:56.725
signing off on postmortem reports, but he

05:56.795 --> 06:01.165
Also, becomes a really important, sort of figure

06:01.185 --> 06:02.845
as a Scottish forensic medical teacher.

06:03.545 --> 06:07.405
And so sort of his key emphasis is on the practice

06:07.425 --> 06:08.445
of forensic medicine

06:08.785 --> 06:10.885
and highlighting the fact that to really do the work,

06:10.945 --> 06:13.005
to really understand it, to be good at it

06:13.845 --> 06:16.825
as a medical student, you have to be exposed to it.

06:16.885 --> 06:19.345
So that's something that he really anchors in his practice.

06:19.405 --> 06:22.635
And it, so much of that stems from his own beliefs about

06:22.825 --> 06:24.875
what his role as a police sergeant gives him

06:24.875 --> 06:28.155
because it's daily confronting him with forensic work

06:28.215 --> 06:29.515
and the pressures and demands

06:29.515 --> 06:31.995
that the criminal justice system is placing on people

06:31.995 --> 06:33.555
to be able to secure evidence

06:34.135 --> 06:35.875
and build narratives that make sense

06:35.895 --> 06:37.635
around crimes and offense.

06:38.195 --> 06:39.575
So it's really fascinating work

06:39.595 --> 06:40.975
and that's what I really love about him.

06:41.325 --> 06:45.425
Um, yeah, and he uses this position, sorry, as well,

06:45.645 --> 06:48.105
to sort of go on to become, you know, one of the elite

06:48.105 --> 06:49.505
of the University of Ed Edinburgh.

06:49.565 --> 06:54.345
So, in 1897, he's already Sir Henry Littlejohn.

06:54.345 --> 06:56.305
So he is already got a knighthood two years before,

06:56.805 --> 07:00.185
but by 1897, he is also occupying the res chair

07:00.185 --> 07:03.105
of forensic medicine, which is quite an established sort

07:03.105 --> 07:05.985
of position and teaching to medical students, you know,

07:05.985 --> 07:07.145
that not only within Scotland,

07:07.165 --> 07:09.905
but medical students that come to the university to study

07:09.905 --> 07:11.745
and then go back home and teach and,

07:11.805 --> 07:13.425
and practice medicine throughout the world.

07:14.045 --> 07:15.385
So he has quite, you know,

07:15.465 --> 07:17.425
a significant influence I feel in sort

07:17.425 --> 07:19.585
of shaping forensic medical practice in this period.

07:19.685 --> 07:21.465
One of the things that's really interesting in this period

07:21.485 --> 07:24.625
in the 19th century, obviously you have increasing numbers

07:24.685 --> 07:27.545
of, of medical experts being called into courtrooms.

07:27.605 --> 07:29.945
And that's one of the thing, and by medical expert,

07:30.345 --> 07:32.345
I mean doctors, you know, this can be very,

07:32.345 --> 07:35.425
this is a very broad understanding of expertise,

07:35.425 --> 07:37.745
because the understanding is that if you've trained

07:37.765 --> 07:40.385
as a doctor, you have, you know, practical experience

07:40.385 --> 07:43.425
of working as a, as a medical practitioner, you know,

07:43.445 --> 07:45.785
you should have a competent enough medical education

07:45.785 --> 07:47.825
that if patient drops down dead,

07:48.285 --> 07:49.945
you can give a postmortem report

07:49.965 --> 07:52.025
or you can report on the case and, and deal with it.

07:52.845 --> 07:54.585
And what's quite interesting is,

07:54.605 --> 07:57.025
is obviously forensic medicine is just sort

07:57.025 --> 07:59.385
of starting in this period to sort of be a specialty

07:59.765 --> 08:02.625
and it's sort of, you know, in its infancy in this period.

08:03.325 --> 08:05.825
And what, what that means practically is

08:05.825 --> 08:07.345
that there are a lot of different types

08:07.345 --> 08:09.705
of medical practitioners that are called into courts

08:09.705 --> 08:11.865
with various different types of competency.

08:12.135 --> 08:15.225
Yeah. Some of them, you know, being exposed to courtrooms

08:15.225 --> 08:16.745
where they don't have a lot of expertise

08:16.805 --> 08:20.225
and so they get exposed to a great deal

08:20.225 --> 08:22.945
of public embarrassment under cross-examination like this.

08:23.015 --> 08:25.585
Yeah. So one of the things that's I suppose is quite

08:26.145 --> 08:29.105
distinct about his role is simply just purely by the,

08:29.105 --> 08:31.145
his connections with working with police

08:31.285 --> 08:32.865
and understanding what justice need,

08:33.445 --> 08:35.625
but also having a very close relationship

08:35.695 --> 08:37.585
with the Crown counsel, who are the ones

08:37.585 --> 08:39.145
that bring the prosecutions in Scotland.

08:39.905 --> 08:42.005
He gets very used to working in the legal system

08:42.145 --> 08:45.445
and he's constantly in the police court, the sheriff courts

08:45.445 --> 08:47.965
and the higher courts that deal with crimes like murder

08:47.985 --> 08:50.445
and sexual assault and the very worst kind of offenses.

08:51.035 --> 08:53.015
So he is constantly sort of being exposed to this,

08:53.015 --> 08:55.435
which is something that say your average general

08:55.435 --> 08:56.435
practitioner might,

08:56.565 --> 08:58.795
might only have a case like this once in their career.

08:59.665 --> 09:03.525
Um, and also part of this is also that he develops a lot

09:03.525 --> 09:07.045
of skill in how to, how to handle cross-examination.

09:07.355 --> 09:09.805
Yeah. How to sort of deal with what is being required

09:09.805 --> 09:13.045
of him, as well as also appreciating, I suppose,

09:13.065 --> 09:15.805
the specific context in which a crime has occurred

09:15.905 --> 09:19.485
and what those practitioners are looking, rather

09:19.515 --> 09:20.965
what prosecutors and police are.

09:20.965 --> 09:24.225
Yeah, people are. So that's kind of one of the things

09:24.225 --> 09:26.385
that I think is quite sort of distinctive about this.

09:27.005 --> 09:29.665
But he also, through his sort of post proximity

09:30.415 --> 09:33.185
working in some ways in an advisory capacity,

09:33.305 --> 09:34.985
but then also giving testimony

09:34.985 --> 09:36.465
and literally reporting on cases,

09:37.415 --> 09:39.275
he builds these collaborations with lots

09:39.275 --> 09:40.715
of different groups, and that's something

09:40.775 --> 09:41.835
I'm quite interested in.

09:41.855 --> 09:44.755
So it's everything from, when he might have

09:44.755 --> 09:45.915
to do a post-mortem report

09:45.935 --> 09:48.235
and Scottish procedure established that in case

09:48.255 --> 09:51.795
of a sudden homicide death, you needed at least two doctors

09:51.935 --> 09:53.275
to sign off on a medical report.

09:54.275 --> 09:56.255
So that meant that he was always collaborating

09:56.255 --> 09:57.735
with another doctor in a case.

09:57.875 --> 10:00.735
And some of these doctors were very well known,

10:00.845 --> 10:02.215
very famous doctors.

10:02.635 --> 10:04.935
Um, in the book chapter I mentioned,

10:04.935 --> 10:07.535
Andrew Douglas McLagan, who becomes quite a well-known,

10:07.935 --> 10:09.255
Scottish toxicologist

10:09.555 --> 10:11.735
and is kind of very influential in a lot

10:11.735 --> 10:15.975
of famous cases like TR Eugene, Matt Marie Charell for,

10:15.975 --> 10:17.095
the poisoning of his wife.

10:17.315 --> 10:19.615
So he's also mixing with elite

10:20.275 --> 10:22.855
and influential practitioners that help build his career.

10:23.355 --> 10:25.295
So it's an interesting kind of nexus

10:25.295 --> 10:26.495
of relationship in that way.

10:27.405 --> 10:29.705
Um, as well as that he's also dealing

10:29.705 --> 10:31.025
with people that are inexperienced.

10:31.525 --> 10:34.505
And, one of the things I sort of talk about in the case

10:34.525 --> 10:37.905
of the, in, in the chapter is a collaboration,

10:37.935 --> 10:39.865
that he has between the Crown Council

10:40.565 --> 10:43.825
and also, the procurator fiscal in a case of a,

10:43.985 --> 10:46.145
a rape case in, 1882.

10:46.925 --> 10:49.625
And in that case, what occurs is there is a sexual assault

10:49.685 --> 10:53.545
on a female, down in the border, in a border town,

10:53.565 --> 10:55.345
and she's allegedly raped by her doctor.

10:55.845 --> 10:59.045
And there's debate within, within the,

10:59.265 --> 11:01.725
the investigative process over whether this is possible,

11:01.725 --> 11:03.765
whether she could be raped while undergoing a medical

11:03.835 --> 11:06.725
procedure, but also, you know,

11:06.795 --> 11:08.405
what evidence can we establish

11:08.435 --> 11:10.085
that will prove that this has happened?

11:10.835 --> 11:14.015
And Little John, you know, it's 1882 by this time,

11:14.015 --> 11:16.495
he is worked as a medical advisor for the Crown.

11:17.155 --> 11:19.375
And that in that capacity, he sort of helps

11:19.475 --> 11:22.255
to problem solve cases where they're challenging.

11:22.915 --> 11:27.405
So in this case, the local doctors give very sort

11:27.405 --> 11:30.365
of unsatisfactory medical reports on

11:30.955 --> 11:34.085
what they saw when they examined the rape complainant's

11:34.085 --> 11:38.205
body, and procurator fiscal, who is the legal, legal,

11:38.465 --> 11:40.965
who was the lawyer, who is assessing whether this case is

11:41.275 --> 11:42.605
good enough for prosecution

11:42.625 --> 11:45.525
and liaising with Crown Counsel who are also trying

11:45.525 --> 11:46.565
to make these assessments

11:46.985 --> 11:50.045
and try to build enough information to progress

11:50.185 --> 11:53.395
or either drop the case, you know, he's liaising

11:53.395 --> 11:54.995
with this procurator fiscal is saying, you know,

11:54.995 --> 11:57.275
we need more, we need more answers here.

11:57.775 --> 12:00.875
And so Littlejohn is literally brought in to

12:01.505 --> 12:02.715
read their initial reports

12:02.815 --> 12:05.755
and then sort of write questions to ask these local doctors

12:06.415 --> 12:09.795
so that then when they're recognized within Scottish context

12:09.895 --> 12:12.715
or interviewed again by Scottish authorities,

12:12.785 --> 12:14.275
they can answer the question.

12:15.015 --> 12:19.465
And in that way, that actually help build up the case

12:19.525 --> 12:22.465
and decide whether the case is something go to trial.

12:22.565 --> 12:24.825
And that essentially is something that's completely hidden,

12:25.095 --> 12:28.065
something you wouldn't see reading newspaper reports

12:28.525 --> 12:31.785
or, it doesn't come into the public domain.

12:31.785 --> 12:32.785
And that's one of those sort

12:32.785 --> 12:35.265
of interesting peculiarities about Scottish procedure

12:35.325 --> 12:37.505
as well, is that work that's going on

12:37.505 --> 12:39.585
behind the scene within private investigation.

12:40.285 --> 12:42.665
So that's something I, I really sort of try

12:42.665 --> 12:45.465
to bear out at these collaborations and these nuances and,

12:45.885 --> 12:49.385
and the, the extent to which, you know, medical practice

12:49.545 --> 12:53.395
and forensic medical practice is so embedded within

12:54.605 --> 12:55.915
other allied professions.

12:56.335 --> 12:59.435
So for example, you know, Littlejohn, you know,

12:59.435 --> 13:02.475
he keeps similar hours to police officers, you know, he has

13:02.475 --> 13:04.715
to be called out at all sorts of hours, you know,

13:04.715 --> 13:06.875
and he has to go, he has to attend, you know,

13:06.905 --> 13:08.355
violent, horrible things.

13:08.505 --> 13:11.475
He's gotta go to nefarious parts of, you know,

13:11.475 --> 13:13.635
the Edinburgh old town where there are all sorts

13:13.635 --> 13:15.875
of criminal, criminal doings going on.

13:16.055 --> 13:18.835
So it's quite sort of a dynamic and exciting life,

13:18.855 --> 13:22.965
but also it's, it's quite, it also brings him, you know,

13:23.105 --> 13:26.045
in into, into the orbit of a various levels

13:26.145 --> 13:29.045
and various spectrums of Edinburgh society, good, bad, or

13:29.045 --> 13:30.565
otherwise, which is really interesting.

13:30.675 --> 13:32.165
Well, I would say one of the things

13:32.165 --> 13:33.365
that really interested me

13:33.365 --> 13:35.485
or that I felt was sort of absent within a lot

13:35.485 --> 13:38.915
of the research was how forensic work was done.

13:39.335 --> 13:42.195
And in the sense of that it's not an atomized activity that,

13:42.495 --> 13:46.235
you know, to bring something from when a body is discovered

13:46.255 --> 13:49.395
or somebody makes a complaint about an assault all the way

13:49.415 --> 13:51.595
to a, a prosecution at trial

13:51.815 --> 13:54.235
and potentially sentencings quite a long process.

13:55.045 --> 13:57.505
And I was really interested in that idea of, well,

13:57.925 --> 13:59.785
what's going on in that process and,

13:59.805 --> 14:03.185
and how are people negotiating competing demands

14:03.185 --> 14:05.585
for different, different thing, you know?

14:06.045 --> 14:07.865
Um, and so obviously, you know,

14:07.865 --> 14:11.745
doctors also have very different ideas, often around,

14:12.245 --> 14:13.945
you know, what constitutes assault,

14:14.095 --> 14:16.505
what constitutes something, what evidence can we gain?

14:17.125 --> 14:18.745
And that's different from say what lawyers

14:18.965 --> 14:20.265
or, the legal profession.

14:21.205 --> 14:22.425
And so in a way,

14:22.495 --> 14:24.705
what I found was really interesting was his role

14:24.705 --> 14:26.305
as almost this sort of middle point

14:26.405 --> 14:29.545
or middle man between these competing demands with sort

14:29.545 --> 14:32.225
of balancing the need to be able to,

14:32.245 --> 14:34.545
instrumentalize medical knowledge and medical

14:35.005 --> 14:38.505
and bring that into the court in a way that was effective

14:38.505 --> 14:41.795
for prosecution, but also not going

14:41.795 --> 14:43.355
to be an embarrassment for medicine.

14:43.375 --> 14:45.955
And if anything, would actually add esteem

14:46.175 --> 14:47.675
to the growing utility

14:47.695 --> 14:50.395
of the medical profession within 19th century society.

14:51.105 --> 14:53.685
So it, it has a lot of sort of benefits in that way.

14:54.425 --> 14:56.525
And I think also, you know, networking, it's one

14:56.525 --> 14:57.845
of those things that's quite hard to sort

14:57.845 --> 14:59.445
of excavate as well in records.

15:00.225 --> 15:01.685
Um, purely just

15:01.685 --> 15:04.525
because of the fact that often when you get,

15:04.595 --> 15:05.605
newspaper accounts

15:05.605 --> 15:08.965
or you're reading through, trial proceedings,

15:09.185 --> 15:11.845
or you're getting interview, recognition reports,

15:12.275 --> 15:14.005
they're all sort of single narratives.

15:14.005 --> 15:16.645
So you get a sense just by the records themselves

15:16.675 --> 15:18.605
that these are atomized processes,

15:19.475 --> 15:22.535
but when you read through them, you actually see the nuggets

15:22.535 --> 15:25.055
that point to the fact of this person's doing this

15:25.055 --> 15:26.535
and this having this impact.

15:26.595 --> 15:27.815
And that's having that effect.

15:28.635 --> 15:31.535
And that's something that I think is quite interesting is

15:31.535 --> 15:34.015
sort of how, how things are, how,

15:34.035 --> 15:35.895
how the decision making process is going,

15:36.345 --> 15:37.615
who's making discretion,

15:37.705 --> 15:42.375
who's making choices discretionally on at certain point and,

15:42.435 --> 15:45.335
and why that's being made and how that's being made and,

15:46.035 --> 15:50.575
and how basically we can, you know, the various professions

15:50.715 --> 15:51.855
and also the community.

15:52.295 --> 15:54.535
'cause naturally they're the ones that are impacted by

15:55.115 --> 15:59.415
and brought into it how they also can be sort of interacted

15:59.595 --> 16:00.855
and involved within this process

16:01.035 --> 16:02.655
or sometimes, you know, sometimes

16:02.655 --> 16:04.975
as it may be excluded from this process as well.

16:05.075 --> 16:07.535
So that's something I, I find really fascinating is sort

16:07.535 --> 16:09.095
of digging into the workings.

16:09.295 --> 16:11.815
I think probably one of the, the key conclusions I think

16:11.815 --> 16:13.735
to come away, come away is, is a

16:13.755 --> 16:15.335
how much more work there is to do.

16:15.875 --> 16:18.455
Um, you know, I I think it's sort of, it's, it's one

16:18.455 --> 16:20.335
of those things that is quite hard to research as well

16:20.335 --> 16:23.135
because it's something that you get glimpses of

16:23.135 --> 16:24.855
through one case, but maybe not another.

16:25.155 --> 16:27.895
So you have to sort of go through quite a lot of material

16:27.995 --> 16:30.335
to get a sense of, you know, what is going on,

16:30.335 --> 16:31.735
what these relationships are.

16:31.875 --> 16:34.735
So it's, it's not, I don't think easy to research this kind

16:34.735 --> 16:36.775
of stuff, but at the same time, that's

16:36.775 --> 16:37.815
what makes it so fascinating.

16:38.035 --> 16:39.695
And when you find these wonderful nuggets,

16:39.695 --> 16:42.175
which I hope comes through in the, in the book chapter

16:42.835 --> 16:45.055
of these really fascinating collaborations

16:45.055 --> 16:48.815
between say the police and, you know, and, and Little John

16:48.815 --> 16:50.935
and there, you know, they're wondering has this woman

16:51.035 --> 16:52.335
for example, poisoned her son?

16:52.335 --> 16:53.375
And how can we prove that?

16:54.045 --> 16:55.575
That I find really fascinating

16:55.575 --> 16:57.175
and it's something that I think is something I,

16:57.235 --> 16:59.335
I'm really keen to develop and I'm, I'm looking

16:59.355 --> 17:02.975
to develop in my current research, I'm working on a book

17:02.975 --> 17:04.375
that's focused on Little John

17:04.375 --> 17:05.815
and looking at his forensic career.

17:06.515 --> 17:09.255
So I'm hoping as a result of that I'll get the chance

17:09.315 --> 17:11.735
to sort of excavate these relationships more

17:12.395 --> 17:14.735
and hopefully just maybe even find, find new things.

17:14.835 --> 17:16.495
You know, there are a lot of sort

17:16.495 --> 17:18.735
of unknowns within this as well and

17:19.355 --> 17:22.495
and certainly for example, I'd be interested to trace,

17:22.595 --> 17:25.055
how his relationship with the police force changes over

17:25.055 --> 17:27.575
time, for example, because that idea

17:27.575 --> 17:30.935
that these relationships don't ma remain static is something

17:30.935 --> 17:32.215
I'm really interested to look at.

17:33.085 --> 17:35.025
Um, but really I think, you know, sort

17:35.025 --> 17:37.385
of the key conclusions is that, you know,

17:37.385 --> 17:39.425
this forensic work in this period

17:39.965 --> 17:42.625
was certainly far from being specialized in a lot of ways,

17:42.725 --> 17:45.305
but so much of it was just built upon practice.

17:45.445 --> 17:47.705
So much of it. In order to understand

17:47.705 --> 17:48.745
that, I really feel you

17:48.745 --> 17:51.485
Have to, to, you have to go to the case records, you have

17:51.485 --> 17:53.845
to go to the criminal, the criminal case files

17:53.985 --> 17:55.885
and sort of see what it was like to do it.

17:55.885 --> 18:00.085
And the police surgeon is such a great, intellect

18:00.105 --> 18:02.085
or route in understanding that history

18:02.105 --> 18:04.205
and understanding various pressures to do it,

18:04.205 --> 18:05.965
which is why I really find it fascinating.

00:00 - The broad context of this research came out of my doctoral thesis that I started in 2014, back at the University of Western Australia. And I was really interested in exploring, the history of forensic medicine in 19th century Edinburgh. And that involved looking at, a number of sort

00:15 - of leading medical experts that had hold, held the position of medical, chair of medical jurisprudence at the University of Edinburgh. And one of these was Professor Henry Littlejohn. And that was sort of how I started to find out a little bit about him and about his research. And what I discovered when I was doing my thesis was just how prolific an expert he was. So he was in so many criminal cases, he was constantly in the press.

00:41 - almost every day there'd be reports about his work, whether it was to do with public health criminal cases or his involvement on some sort of organizational group. And so I became really sort of intrigued by this man through that way. and I think what I learned through doing that research and through sort of digging into Littlejohn was just how much of his profile was linked in with his role as a police surgeon. And that's sort of what I really talk about in the book

01:08 - and sort of, or in the book chapter rather, and I try to bring out through discussion is sort of how, how that role was really central with what he was doing. And about Little John himself. So Little John was, he's a very interesting sort of enigmatic fit figure, but in a lot of ways I think he's been quite sort of, forgotten in some ways in the history of forensics, or certainly neglected, we would say. a lot of the sort of leaning, leading work that is sort

01:34 - of looked at his contribution to Edinburgh medicine has really explored his role within public health. And, in 1865, he published this really influential report on the sanitary health of Edinburgh. And so scholars like Paul, Paul, Paul Laxton, Richard Rogers, Brenda White, you know, and Ann Crowler have really sort of born out that sort of side of thing. But I was quite interested to see, you know, given how

01:58 - how important he was as a forensic expert was coming through so strongly for me, that side of that side of that career and sort of flagged that up. And, you know, he had quite an interesting career in the sense of, you know, he was your typical Edinburgh doctor, you know, born and bred in the city. you know, had a father who was a bakery confectioner in the city. He was educated at the university, did the typical jaunt

02:24 - that so many medical students do off the continent to get further training after he qualified. And then he came back and he wasn't necessarily going to become a forensic doctor. He came back and he went to one of the border towns and, border towns called, to take up private practice for some unknown reason. It's not really clear why he seems to sort of change very early in his career and decides that he's gonna actually move back to the city

02:49 - of Edinburgh and pursue post public based posts. So whether that's police, surgeon, medical roles, affiliations with ho hospitals, et cetera, et cetera. And so he first becomes police surgeon and applies for this job in his late twenties in 1855. And as I sort of bear out in the article, there's a little bit of sort of scandal around this and about whether there was a degree of nepotism and family connections that got him into this role. and that probably is highly likely

03:18 - because one of the things you really learn about Enbr medicine in this period is, is how much connection, in the learned professions mattered and who you knew really mattered in, in shaping career. But he takes up this role of police surgeon, and this is a very demanding role. This is, again, something I really try to pick up in this, in this chapter is, is what was sort of the practical work of doing police work.

03:42 - And that's something I'm really interested in. So he's literally employed by the police. He's the sort of employed by, the police commission, and he works as the, the surgeon who not only attends to any complaints that, police might have as to their physical health and fitness, so say if they're injured on the job or assaulted or attacked or things like that. But he also attends to a massive number of things. everything from if there's a call for a sudden

04:10 - or suspicious death, he's the medical man in city of Edinburgh to go on board, examining, people who may be mentally unsound, check their mental competency, examining women, so, in women in case cases of sexual assault as well. so he's just got a really broad remit of what he does, and it's even more broad and more kind of interesting when you sort of dig into sources and cases and you kind of get a sense of, of what

04:39 - that work was like in a sort of daily sense. So he actually does this position for over five decades, which I've never heard of it being from pit anywhere else. Right. And that's one of the curiosities about him is because, a lot of roles like, you know, a lot of police surgeons in, in England and elsewhere, they tend to be really short term posts. And the job is not something that people really wanna stay in because it's not pleasant, it's not high prestige,

05:05 - it's dealing with, you know, criminals. It's dealing with dead bodies. It's not something where you're going to traditionally have a very lucrative career in the medical profession. but he uses this, uses his role within the, the Edinburgh, city police and uses all of the sort of, I suppose, networks that it opens up to him within medicine, but also also within the legal community in Edinburgh

05:32 - to kind of build a very dynamic and very influential career in the city. And I think when he retires, he's in his 80. So this is a man that is working for an exceptionally long time in his life. and you know, he uses this position very successfully. So he become not only, you know, a prolific medical expert testifying in criminal courts, signing off on postmortem reports, but he Also, becomes a really important, sort of figure

06:01 - as a Scottish forensic medical teacher. And so sort of his key emphasis is on the practice of forensic medicine and highlighting the fact that to really do the work, to really understand it, to be good at it as a medical student, you have to be exposed to it. So that's something that he really anchors in his practice. And it, so much of that stems from his own beliefs about what his role as a police sergeant gives him because it's daily confronting him with forensic work

06:28 - and the pressures and demands that the criminal justice system is placing on people to be able to secure evidence and build narratives that make sense around crimes and offense. So it's really fascinating work and that's what I really love about him. yeah, and he uses this position, sorry, as well, to sort of go on to become, you know, one of the elite of the University of Ed Edinburgh.

06:49 - So, in 1897, he's already Sir Henry Littlejohn. So he is already got a knighthood two years before, but by 1897, he is also occupying the res chair of forensic medicine, which is quite an established sort of position and teaching to medical students, you know, that not only within Scotland, but medical students that come to the university to study and then go back home and teach and, and practice medicine throughout the world. So he has quite, you know,

07:15 - a significant influence I feel in sort of shaping forensic medical practice in this period. One of the things that's really interesting in this period in the 19th century, obviously you have increasing numbers of, of medical experts being called into courtrooms. And that's one of the thing, and by medical expert, I mean doctors, you know, this can be very, this is a very broad understanding of expertise, because the understanding is that if you've trained as a doctor, you have, you know, practical experience

07:40 - of working as a, as a medical practitioner, you know, you should have a competent enough medical education that if patient drops down dead, you can give a postmortem report or you can report on the case and, and deal with it. And what's quite interesting is, is obviously forensic medicine is just sort of starting in this period to sort of be a specialty and it's sort of, you know, in its infancy in this period. And what, what that means practically is

08:05 - that there are a lot of different types of medical practitioners that are called into courts with various different types of competency. Yeah. Some of them, you know, being exposed to courtrooms where they don't have a lot of expertise and so they get exposed to a great deal of public embarrassment under cross-examination like this. Yeah. So one of the things that's I suppose is quite distinct about his role is simply just purely by the, his connections with working with police

08:31 - and understanding what justice need, but also having a very close relationship with the Crown counsel, who are the ones that bring the prosecutions in Scotland. He gets very used to working in the legal system and he's constantly in the police court, the sheriff courts and the higher courts that deal with crimes like murder and sexual assault and the very worst kind of offenses. So he is constantly sort of being exposed to this, which is something that say your average general

08:55 - practitioner might, might only have a case like this once in their career. and also part of this is also that he develops a lot of skill in how to, how to handle cross-examination. Yeah. How to sort of deal with what is being required of him, as well as also appreciating, I suppose, the specific context in which a crime has occurred and what those practitioners are looking, rather what prosecutors and police are. Yeah, people are. So that's kind of one of the things

09:24 - that I think is quite sort of distinctive about this. But he also, through his sort of post proximity working in some ways in an advisory capacity, but then also giving testimony and literally reporting on cases, he builds these collaborations with lots of different groups, and that's something I'm quite interested in. So it's everything from, when he might have to do a post-mortem report

09:45 - and Scottish procedure established that in case of a sudden homicide death, you needed at least two doctors to sign off on a medical report. So that meant that he was always collaborating with another doctor in a case. And some of these doctors were very well known, very famous doctors. in the book chapter I mentioned, Andrew Douglas McLagan, who becomes quite a well-known, Scottish toxicologist

10:09 - and is kind of very influential in a lot of famous cases like TR Eugene, Matt Marie Charell for, the poisoning of his wife. So he's also mixing with elite and influential practitioners that help build his career. So it's an interesting kind of nexus of relationship in that way. as well as that he's also dealing with people that are inexperienced. And, one of the things I sort of talk about in the case

10:34 - of the, in, in the chapter is a collaboration, that he has between the Crown Council and also, the procurator fiscal in a case of a, a rape case in, 1882. And in that case, what occurs is there is a sexual assault on a female, down in the border, in a border town, and she's allegedly raped by her doctor. And there's debate within, within the, the investigative process over whether this is possible, whether she could be raped while undergoing a medical

11:03 - procedure, but also, you know, what evidence can we establish that will prove that this has happened? And Little John, you know, it's 1882 by this time, he is worked as a medical advisor for the Crown. And that in that capacity, he sort of helps to problem solve cases where they're challenging. So in this case, the local doctors give very sort of unsatisfactory medical reports on what they saw when they examined the rape complainant's

11:34 - body, and procurator fiscal, who is the legal, legal, who was the lawyer, who is assessing whether this case is good enough for prosecution and liaising with Crown Counsel who are also trying to make these assessments and try to build enough information to progress or either drop the case, you know, he's liaising with this procurator fiscal is saying, you know, we need more, we need more answers here. And so Littlejohn is literally brought in to

12:01 - read their initial reports and then sort of write questions to ask these local doctors so that then when they're recognized within Scottish context or interviewed again by Scottish authorities, they can answer the question. And in that way, that actually help build up the case and decide whether the case is something go to trial. And that essentially is something that's completely hidden, something you wouldn't see reading newspaper reports or, it doesn't come into the public domain.

12:31 - And that's one of those sort of interesting peculiarities about Scottish procedure as well, is that work that's going on behind the scene within private investigation. So that's something I, I really sort of try to bear out at these collaborations and these nuances and, and the, the extent to which, you know, medical practice and forensic medical practice is so embedded within other allied professions. So for example, you know, Littlejohn, you know,

12:59 - he keeps similar hours to police officers, you know, he has to be called out at all sorts of hours, you know, and he has to go, he has to attend, you know, violent, horrible things. He's gotta go to nefarious parts of, you know, the Edinburgh old town where there are all sorts of criminal, criminal doings going on. So it's quite sort of a dynamic and exciting life, but also it's, it's quite, it also brings him, you know, in into, into the orbit of a various levels

13:26 - and various spectrums of Edinburgh society, good, bad, or otherwise, which is really interesting. Well, I would say one of the things that really interested me or that I felt was sort of absent within a lot of the research was how forensic work was done. And in the sense of that it's not an atomized activity that, you know, to bring something from when a body is discovered or somebody makes a complaint about an assault all the way to a, a prosecution at trial

13:51 - and potentially sentencings quite a long process. And I was really interested in that idea of, well, what's going on in that process and, and how are people negotiating competing demands for different, different thing, you know? and so obviously, you know, doctors also have very different ideas, often around, you know, what constitutes assault, what constitutes something, what evidence can we gain? And that's different from say what lawyers

14:18 - or, the legal profession. And so in a way, what I found was really interesting was his role as almost this sort of middle point or middle man between these competing demands with sort of balancing the need to be able to, instrumentalize medical knowledge and medical and bring that into the court in a way that was effective for prosecution, but also not going to be an embarrassment for medicine.

14:43 - And if anything, would actually add esteem to the growing utility of the medical profession within 19th century society. So it, it has a lot of sort of benefits in that way. And I think also, you know, networking, it's one of those things that's quite hard to sort of excavate as well in records. purely just because of the fact that often when you get, newspaper accounts

15:05 - or you're reading through, trial proceedings, or you're getting interview, recognition reports, they're all sort of single narratives. So you get a sense just by the records themselves that these are atomized processes, but when you read through them, you actually see the nuggets that point to the fact of this person's doing this and this having this impact. And that's having that effect. And that's something that I think is quite interesting is

15:31 - sort of how, how things are, how, how the decision making process is going, who's making discretion, who's making choices discretionally on at certain point and, and why that's being made and how that's being made and, and how basically we can, you know, the various professions and also the community. 'cause naturally they're the ones that are impacted by and brought into it how they also can be sort of interacted and involved within this process

16:01 - or sometimes, you know, sometimes as it may be excluded from this process as well. So that's something I, I find really fascinating is sort of digging into the workings. I think probably one of the, the key conclusions I think to come away, come away is, is a how much more work there is to do. you know, I I think it's sort of, it's, it's one of those things that is quite hard to research as well because it's something that you get glimpses of

16:23 - through one case, but maybe not another. So you have to sort of go through quite a lot of material to get a sense of, you know, what is going on, what these relationships are. So it's, it's not, I don't think easy to research this kind of stuff, but at the same time, that's what makes it so fascinating. And when you find these wonderful nuggets, which I hope comes through in the, in the book chapter of these really fascinating collaborations

16:45 - between say the police and, you know, and, and Little John and there, you know, they're wondering has this woman for example, poisoned her son? And how can we prove that? That I find really fascinating and it's something that I think is something I, I'm really keen to develop and I'm, I'm looking to develop in my current research, I'm working on a book that's focused on Little John and looking at his forensic career.

17:06 - So I'm hoping as a result of that I'll get the chance to sort of excavate these relationships more and hopefully just maybe even find, find new things. You know, there are a lot of sort of unknowns within this as well and and certainly for example, I'd be interested to trace, how his relationship with the police force changes over time, for example, because that idea that these relationships don't ma remain static is something I'm really interested to look at.

17:33 - but really I think, you know, sort of the key conclusions is that, you know, this forensic work in this period was certainly far from being specialized in a lot of ways, but so much of it was just built upon practice. So much of it. In order to understand that, I really feel you Have to, to, you have to go to the case records, you have to go to the criminal, the criminal case files and sort of see what it was like to do it.

17:55 - And the police surgeon is such a great, intellect or route in understanding that history and understanding various pressures to do it, which is why I really find it fascinating.

Faculti AI can make mistakes