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The Sonoran Dynasty in Mexico Revolution

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In “The Sonoran Dynasty in Mexico,” Jürgen Buchenau recounts the narrative of this governing faction, which, during the revolutionary era, rejected both Indigenous and Catholic traditions.

Image courtesy of interviewee. March 5, 2024

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This video video outlines the motivations and research behind a book focusing on the historical context of Mexican leadership, particularly during and after the Mexican Revolution. The author reflects on their initial academic work, which explored Mexican attitudes towards violence in Central America, ultimately leading to an interest in the Sonoran Dynasty—a group of leaders who significantly shaped modern Mexico.

The author details a 25-year journey in researching this group, utilizing a variety of archives and sources, including significant personal papers from figures like General Abelardo Rodríguez, who played key roles in the revolution. Key leaders of the era, such as Plutarco Elías Calles and Alvaro Obregón, are discussed, highlighting their rise and fall from power, relationships with the military, political maneuvering, and their impact on social policies.

This video video touches on Calles’ authoritarian tendencies and his conflicts with the Catholic Church, which catalyzed the Cristero War, a significant conflict during his presidency. It further explores the internal struggles and betrayals within the Sonoran leadership, demonstrating how corruption and ambition led to the group's decline, ultimately paving the way for new political dynamics in Mexico.

The author aims to provide readers a poignant story of power dynamics, illustrating how alliances formed in pursuit of a better Mexico devolved into internal conflict and eventual disintegration. The concluding message emphasizes insights into the nature of power and its volatility, reflecting on both the achievements and failures of Mexico’s revolutionary leaders.

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What motivated the book was,

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actually a very old project, my dissertation, when I,

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examined the attitudes of the succession of Mexican

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administrations toward, the violence

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and warfare in Central America.

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And this, of course, had very much contemporary overtones

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because at the time you had the sand

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revolution in Nicaragua.

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And so I was interested in Mexico's long-term outlook on,

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the smaller nations on, on, on the southern border.

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And I, I ran into the Sonoran Dynasty

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as basically the architects of Mexico's

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revolutionary state in the twenties and thirties,

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and found an archive that contained the papers of many

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of these people and found

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that this particular group was particularly easy to study

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because of the availability of documents.

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And so, I then started reading more

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and more about, this group of leaders, who,

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like I say, dominated Mexico for about 15 years.

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And what I became more

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and more interested in is how did they do it?

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How did they make order out of chaos?

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How did they create a state that was durable?

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How did they create a party

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that ruled all the way from 1929 to 2000?

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And so I then took, probably the most important,

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but also least appreciated leader of the Bunch Ko,

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and wrote a biography on, on him,

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and then did a second, biography on General Bergon,

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the most successful general in the Mexican Revolution.

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And, but once I completed these two, I, concluded

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that it was time for me to look at the group as a whole.

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And so it was really, I would say 25 years of research and,

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and writing on this group that motivated it.

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The research was done in, in several locations.

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Uh, the most important, is group of sources

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for me are the ko,

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which is in, in Mexico City.

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The official name is

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Fiso Fernando, to Lanka.

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And, the house in a house

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where the general himself lived,

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about a hundred years ago, in one

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of Mexico City's nicest neighborhoods.

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And so the, so this archive is tremendously organized

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and houses a lot of these personal papers.

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And, they became, I think, a very important source

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for me, source.

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Then I augmented with that collection by finding

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through the good offices of a family friend,

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another archive that was hidden away in an attic

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in a Mexico City house.

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And that was the archive of General Abela Rodriguez, who

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until that point had not really been written about.

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And so, those papers were added to the collection.

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I encouraged that family

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to donate the papers, to the archive.

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And then in, in addition, of course, to those sources

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in Spanish, I also use Mexican government sources,

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and then a large number of United States sources.

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So both, diplomatic, and espionage sources.

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So from, US intelligence agencies, along

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with newspapers, some European archival sources,

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and a tremendous literature about the Mexican revolution

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that's been generated since, the 1950s, that also,

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really informed, the work and helped it out a lot.

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I was a man who grew up in poverty.

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Uh, he was the last of, 23 children.

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And, basically came from,

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once a very famous land owning family

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that had fallen upon on hard times.

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And, unlike many other revolutionaries in Mexico,

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he didn't actually believe in the revolution.

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He was a fan of the old regime of portfolio Diaz

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until the revolution started

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and threatened instability to, in his, border,

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border state of Sonora.

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And, so when that, when Sonora became,

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essentially a, a theater, a battleground between,

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the Sonoran State government

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that had been democratically elected

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after the real revolution

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and the forces of, Pasqua Orozco, he opted to,

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join the revolution in defense of his state government.

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So it was a little unusual in

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that he wasn't a hero on horseback who took up arms

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against the government,

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but he actually took of arms for the state government

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and, defended it against the invaders from Chihuahua.

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Uh, that then, basically sets up his la later attitude.

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Um, there's a coup deta in 20 19 13 that brings to power

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the old regime, basically under general Victoriano Huta.

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And so, again, the sold regime threatened Sonora as a state.

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And so Brion intervenes and, defends the state

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and, helps defeat Huta along with the famous Pancho Viga

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and, ano and Carranza.

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And then after the, the victory of that coalition,

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he turns against via his old ally,

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because Viga is from Chihuahua,

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and that's the same people

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who invaded Sonora when he started the revolution.

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And so he once again, takes up,

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basically weapons against, so Nora's neighboring state,

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and, then really ends the revolution by winning it.

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Uh, he's not initially made president that goes

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to a civilian ano Carranza, but he's super ambitious.

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And I think it's, what's interesting about him is his

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military genius and also his entrepreneurial skill,

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but coupled with almost, no adherence

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to any dominant ideology.

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So this is somebody who, wasn't ideological,

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didn't believe in ideas,

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but believed very much in power.

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He, he believed in, making things happen that he wanted,

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or that he interpreted the people wanting to happen.

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So in 1920, he is at the head of a coalition,

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that overthrows Carranza government,

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because Carranza busy making sure that

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the Sonoran never become, dominant in Mexico,

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and then, really brings his friends into the Capitol

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when, that revolution triumphs in May 1920s

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and governs it for the next 15 years.

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What we know, about the patriarch of the revolution is

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that he very much relied on his, support,

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among the military and in Congress where he had a lot

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of friends, whom he had helped get congressional seats.

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He had some ties to Mexican mass organizations,

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particularly, peasant organizations.

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Um, but even in power, he never was ideological.

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I mean, he was basically a deal maker.

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Um, I don't wanna make too many parallels to the or, or,

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or former US president

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who also writes about the art of the deal.

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But if there ever was a Mexican art of the deal,

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then I think we would've gone embodied that the, the,

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facility to, basically

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Triangulate And make, the deals that he needed.

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Uh, so over time, he loses quite a bit of support,

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and in 1924, he tries to install plu.

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That's where he, of course, he's his main

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Ally. He thinks that

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Cas is weak,

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and so he confronts the Civil War,

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when he tries to do that.

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Uh, but the government wins.

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And then CAAs is,

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the president for the next four years.

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Um, so in 1927, you could say

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that he's the most important military

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and political leader in Mexico,

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even though he is not president, then

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he's very much dominant in Mexican political affairs.

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And then he makes a very great mistake of running

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for president again.

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Uh, which was something that the Mexican constitution

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of 1917 had prohibited,

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and they, it had prohibited reelection

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because polio Diaz the own pre the old president had won 10

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presidential elections.

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And so they didn't want that to be possible again.

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And so, when he had himself reelected,

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there was once again, an uprising against him.

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Um, he killed his opponents

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and was then himself assassinated by a Catholic radical

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who was unhappy about, the policy

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that I can discuss in a minute of flu towards the church.

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Uh, so his, the, the end of his life is really tragic,

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assassinated on the eve, of a second presidency.

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But one of the reasons why I think he still fondly

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remembered is first of all, his sense of humor,

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And then also the, the, the, sense

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that he died in the line of fire, right?

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Right. Americans are also fond of, John F. Kennedy for,

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for example, who died in office.

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Abraham Lincoln was shot in office.

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So when, when we have presidents who were killed in,

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the discharge of their office, we kind

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of give 'em some bonus points

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because they, they have points of martyrs.

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And so, and to, to some extent,

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even though he was authoritarian, unimaginative

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and not ideological, not interested in really bringing

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lasting social change to Mexico, let alone deliver,

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the land and labor reforms that the poor

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and Mexico who de desperately wanted.

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Despite all of that, he's fondly remembered.

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And there are many things that Mexico named after him.

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He was actually older than him by, by three years,

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but also came from a family that was poor at the time

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of his birth, but that had had considerable influence.

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Um, earlier on, like Obregon, he was a white

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as a descendant of Spaniards.

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And, so, like Obregon, he wants to make,

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basically his family status whole again

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and achieve, the wealth and prominence of his Forbes.

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Uh, the difference, with CAAs is

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that he is not a very good military leader.

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Um, and he is also not a very good entrepreneur.

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So, as he tries out, both

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of these careers early on in the

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revolution, he fails it either.

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But the one thing,

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that he does better than obregon develop political ideas,

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CAAs does have a set of political ideas.

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And, for lack of a better word, I would say that a lot

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of these ideas revolved around nationalism

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and, some sense of, European,

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of social democracy.

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So he wanted, to have a government

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that would dis redistribute at least

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some resources to the poor.

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And, that would also be dedicated to building

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up Mexican infrastructure projects to reduce,

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to basically build wealth in Mexico,

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but also reduce its dependence from the United States.

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Um, so, so, so Kayan like ob

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is a more civilian figure despite his general rank.

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And, he does have a, a lot of political ideas.

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And so one of the dominant political ideas in CAEs

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is his antipathy to the Roman Catholic Church,

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which he considers responsible for a lot of the bad things

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that have happened in Mexico since the Spanish conquest,

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in particularly the existence of a small landed elite.

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Um, basically in close collaboration,

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with the government, he believed that the church,

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encouraged on authoritarianism in Mexico that they,

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had way too much power

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and influence that they, held people in ignorance.

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He was a school teacher once,

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and he wanted to,

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basically wanted free public education.

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And so he thought that the church, is in the way

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of all of this, and that basically,

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the church in Mexico is a state within the state that limits

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Mexico from becoming a strong nation.

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'cause so many Mexicans, rich

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and poor, are loyal to the Pope

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and to the popes, bishops and archbishops in Mexico.

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And so, again, unlike ob,

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CAAs pursues this with great vigor.

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And so when he becomes president,

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he has a very strong year initially where he is able

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to do a lot of the things that he wants socially.

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So he, puts new,

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restrictions on a foreign owned oil industry.

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Uh, they found the Bunko de Mexico,

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which was a central bank, which they hadn't had.

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He starts an ambitious road building project,

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but then his mistake is in basically waging war on the

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church is passing a law, that criminalizes a lot of

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ministry activities, such as, for, for example,

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leading an outdoor religious procession in the public's

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place, which the 20 19 17, the Constitution has

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for forbidden, such as exceeding, the number of priests

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that the government has prescribed.

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So, so, so kayas takes the war to the church,

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which responds with a so-called Al Rebellion,

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and a total strike where the, churches could no longer,

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hold religious ceremonies or, even do baptisms

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or anything like that in public, in the, in, in the places

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of, formal worship.

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They still do it clandestinely in people's

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private homes and so on.

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But there's a church strike that gets rid of all kind

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of public worship, this church strike.

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And the C war then is what tarnishes, CA's legacy,

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because it, turns out to be a way

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that he's antagonized.

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Um, of course, a good part of the Mexican population.

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In 1927, a major economic crisis hits two years

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before the, the Depression,

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and, forces him

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to bring ob going back basically into a position

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where he's Kai's main advisor.

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Um, he, his, luck perhaps, was

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that Obregon was assassinated in 1928.

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And so after that, he's the only strong man

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that remained from the duo.

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So his former patron and boss has been assassinated,

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and he manages through, several,

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very clever maneuvers to bring a lot of the obregon,

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supports, behind him.

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Uh, and, so he serves out his presidency,

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and then for six years, becomes

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what his opponents called the,

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or the Supreme Chief of the Mexican Revolution.

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And this is the period when,

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they found the new ruling party, the party

14:42.055 --> 14:46.975
re which is today the, the pre or the party revolution.

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Again, a very powerful party that governs for 71 years

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and returns to power under Pen Nieto in

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2012 for six more years.

14:58.905 --> 15:02.605
And, it's during the, this time that despite this,

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great Depression, that he does a lot

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of the constructive work that, I think he run, run on

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as, as a candidate,

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but at the same time, he becomes very

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politically conservative and corrupt.

15:15.785 --> 15:19.565
So this is a time when, the governments of Mexico,

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become very corrupt.

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And where he, even though he doesn't have a formal

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portfolio, plays, quite a bit large role

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behind the scenes, especially in the presidency

15:30.725 --> 15:34.525
of Pasquale Ortiz Rubio from 1930 to 1932.

15:34.825 --> 15:38.205
So during the, the Maxi Matos often been portrayed

15:39.135 --> 15:41.715
as a very difficult time, in Mexican history,

15:41.715 --> 15:44.315
and is a very corrupt one, and a lot of that is true.

15:44.315 --> 15:48.235
But as I show in these two chapters, e CAAs didn't have

15:48.235 --> 15:50.675
as much influence during the time as it's believed.

15:51.215 --> 15:54.435
And in the last two years, when his friend,

15:54.585 --> 15:57.635
Abba La Rodriguez becomes the last Sonoran to be,

15:57.655 --> 16:00.795
to become president of Mexico, he actually adopts a lot

16:00.795 --> 16:03.715
of the progressive legislation, a lot of pro worker

16:03.855 --> 16:07.395
and pro president legislation that La Cardena will use

16:07.415 --> 16:12.195
to revive the revolution in the period following Lia CAAs.

16:12.575 --> 16:16.275
So, even as, CAAs then, of course has a conflict

16:16.275 --> 16:19.075
with Cardenas and is sent into exile

16:19.695 --> 16:22.715
for basically conspiring against the Cardenas government.

16:23.295 --> 16:26.515
Uh, I would say in many ways, the CAAs period,

16:26.615 --> 16:30.675
if you look at these 10 years from 1924 to 1934,

16:31.215 --> 16:34.435
lay a lot of the important foundations of the smo.

16:34.435 --> 16:37.555
So one of the important contributions of the book is

16:37.555 --> 16:40.755
that we not look at the sono and s opposites,

16:41.215 --> 16:43.115
but that we look at it as an evolution

16:43.115 --> 16:44.275
from one group to the other.

16:44.615 --> 16:47.715
So the group's downfall is definitely tied to two things.

16:47.815 --> 16:50.795
Now, number one, of course, it's become very small.

16:51.885 --> 16:55.265
So, it starts off with, dozens

16:55.265 --> 16:56.625
of people in the 1910s.

16:56.705 --> 16:59.505
I, I I, I only study 11 people in this book.

17:00.205 --> 17:05.185
Um, but then as we see, in each chapter is

17:05.185 --> 17:06.905
that there are disagreements among the group

17:06.905 --> 17:07.985
that reduces its number.

17:08.085 --> 17:10.305
So a lot of people are sent to exiles

17:10.485 --> 17:11.505
and others are murdered.

17:11.645 --> 17:14.785
And of course, the last one to be murdered is OB himself.

17:14.785 --> 17:18.505
But before that, Francisco Serrano

17:18.505 --> 17:21.945
and Alfo Gomez are murdered, by, the OB

17:22.565 --> 17:23.585
in 1927.

17:24.045 --> 17:27.665
And in 1924, basically,

17:27.725 --> 17:30.585
Adolfo Deta sent it to exile, and two others are murdered.

17:31.045 --> 17:34.185
So, first of all, the group becomes small as a result

17:34.185 --> 17:36.345
of the con the conflict within it.

17:37.085 --> 17:41.665
Uh, number two, the, Maximoto with CAAs

17:41.665 --> 17:46.165
as an informal, kind of influencer

17:46.225 --> 17:49.545
of the government, over time

17:50.135 --> 17:52.105
will make the party more, more,

17:52.105 --> 17:53.505
important than the Sonoran Group.

17:54.325 --> 17:55.545
Um, and that is

17:55.545 --> 17:57.145
because, the party

17:57.535 --> 18:00.825
that Kai is founded in 1929 becomes more

18:00.825 --> 18:02.585
and more important in Mexican public life.

18:03.565 --> 18:06.505
And so, increasingly, a group like the Sonoran Group

18:06.505 --> 18:10.065
that is based on personal loyalty will lose out

18:10.065 --> 18:11.905
to a party machine that really become,

18:11.905 --> 18:14.465
starts becoming strong in 1933.

18:14.605 --> 18:18.825
So when Kaas becomes the official candidate in

18:19.425 --> 18:23.065
December, 1933, Cardenas is able to relatively quickly

18:23.725 --> 18:26.465
get the loyalty of a lot of the party behind him.

18:27.525 --> 18:30.105
And so, even though, most of the ca is,

18:30.205 --> 18:32.945
the party is still CA's loyalists,

18:33.275 --> 18:34.745
these younger intellectuals

18:34.745 --> 18:37.225
and politicians in generals who are now part of the group

18:38.095 --> 18:40.705
they knew, they know that there's the president incoming

18:41.205 --> 18:43.465
and are basically waiting, who's gonna be stronger, stronger

18:43.465 --> 18:45.465
between the two of them Carter than us

18:45.465 --> 18:49.625
and ca And when CAEs makes a mistake of,

18:50.145 --> 18:51.505
criticizing Ana in public

18:52.245 --> 18:56.225
and Kana strikes back by shaking up the cabinet,

18:57.215 --> 18:59.865
it's relatively easy for these people who had

19:00.405 --> 19:01.905
always supported Cas

19:01.905 --> 19:04.025
because they simply didn't know any other authority

19:04.565 --> 19:08.185
to then relatively quickly change their mind

19:08.285 --> 19:11.465
and change their allegiance that, they find.

19:11.465 --> 19:15.385
And so, what, what I, show there is basically

19:15.415 --> 19:17.385
what a social scientist is called.

19:17.405 --> 19:19.865
The preference cascade is you have something

19:19.865 --> 19:21.425
that approaches a consensus,

19:21.845 --> 19:23.865
but that relies on the, the beliefs

19:23.865 --> 19:25.505
that everybody else thinks the same way.

19:25.525 --> 19:28.225
And so, for for years, CAAs

19:28.245 --> 19:31.305
and his friends were seen as the inevitable ruler.

19:31.765 --> 19:34.625
But once that gets questioned by a shock to the system,

19:34.685 --> 19:37.625
and certainly the depression is a shock to the system,

19:38.005 --> 19:41.225
and the election of is shock to the system,

19:41.775 --> 19:46.105
it's relatively easy for a few people changing allegiance

19:46.105 --> 19:50.025
to then set off a chain reaction in which the entire Mexican

19:50.055 --> 19:54.665
political class who were opportunistic all

19:54.665 --> 19:56.505
of a sudden become opportunistic.

19:57.565 --> 20:01.095
Es. The reason why that is important is

20:01.095 --> 20:04.175
that Ka Cardenas himself will only be able

20:04.175 --> 20:06.335
to really promote progressive reforms for three

20:06.335 --> 20:08.775
or four years, is that these people at the end

20:08.775 --> 20:11.455
of his government will once again turn the right turn

20:11.455 --> 20:14.375
to the right and limit Kanas from some of these things

20:14.765 --> 20:15.895
that he, that they were doing.

20:15.995 --> 20:17.055
So to some extent,

20:17.475 --> 20:20.055
the downfall from the group was probably inevitable

20:20.745 --> 20:22.855
based on the aging and thinning of the group.

20:22.995 --> 20:25.775
But a lot of it really does go back to that,

20:25.775 --> 20:28.535
final showdown between CAAs and Ka us.

20:28.955 --> 20:31.095
So readers who are very far away, I think

20:31.605 --> 20:34.875
will read a very tragic story of, power,

20:34.875 --> 20:36.155
corruption and betrayal.

20:37.025 --> 20:40.635
They will see a group of once enthusiastic young men,

20:40.935 --> 20:42.915
and they're all men,

20:43.655 --> 20:46.875
who coincided in wanting a better future, with,

20:46.875 --> 20:49.125
for Mexico, who ganged together

20:49.345 --> 20:52.405
and defeated, basically reactionary

20:52.405 --> 20:53.925
and militaristic regime,

20:54.305 --> 20:56.725
and then their enemies on the other side of the revolution.

20:57.545 --> 21:00.645
And what they will see beginning in chapter four is a group

21:00.645 --> 21:02.805
that eats each other, basically a group

21:02.805 --> 21:07.365
that consumes in itself with, corruption,

21:08.165 --> 21:09.325
ambition and repression.

21:10.015 --> 21:12.675
Uh, so that in the end, it becomes so weak

21:12.675 --> 21:15.675
and so thin that it's relatively easy to overthrow.

21:15.735 --> 21:19.715
So I, I'm, I'm hoping that, readers will show, will,

21:19.715 --> 21:24.235
will learn, how power is acquired, how it is wielded,

21:24.375 --> 21:25.795
and how it is lost in the end.

00:00 - What motivated the book was, actually a very old project, my dissertation, when I, examined the attitudes of the succession of Mexican administrations toward, the violence and warfare in Central America. And this, of course, had very much contemporary overtones

00:18 - because at the time you had the sand revolution in Nicaragua. And so I was interested in Mexico's long-term outlook on, the smaller nations on, on, on the southern border. And I, I ran into the Sonoran Dynasty as basically the architects of Mexico's revolutionary state in the twenties and thirties, and found an archive that contained the papers of many of these people and found that this particular group was particularly easy to study

00:49 - because of the availability of documents. And so, I then started reading more and more about, this group of leaders, who, like I say, dominated Mexico for about 15 years. And what I became more and more interested in is how did they do it? How did they make order out of chaos? How did they create a state that was durable? How did they create a party that ruled all the way from 1929 to 2000?

01:17 - And so I then took, probably the most important, but also least appreciated leader of the Bunch Ko, and wrote a biography on, on him, and then did a second, biography on General Bergon, the most successful general in the Mexican Revolution. And, but once I completed these two, I, concluded that it was time for me to look at the group as a whole. And so it was really, I would say 25 years of research and, and writing on this group that motivated it. The research was done in, in several locations.

01:53 - the most important, is group of sources for me are the ko, which is in, in Mexico City. The official name is Fiso Fernando, to Lanka. And, the house in a house where the general himself lived, about a hundred years ago, in one of Mexico City's nicest neighborhoods. And so the, so this archive is tremendously organized

02:24 - and houses a lot of these personal papers. And, they became, I think, a very important source for me, source. Then I augmented with that collection by finding through the good offices of a family friend, another archive that was hidden away in an attic in a Mexico City house. And that was the archive of General Abela Rodriguez, who until that point had not really been written about. And so, those papers were added to the collection.

02:53 - I encouraged that family to donate the papers, to the archive. And then in, in addition, of course, to those sources in Spanish, I also use Mexican government sources, and then a large number of United States sources. So both, diplomatic, and espionage sources. So from, US intelligence agencies, along with newspapers, some European archival sources, and a tremendous literature about the Mexican revolution that's been generated since, the 1950s, that also,

03:27 - really informed, the work and helped it out a lot. I was a man who grew up in poverty. he was the last of, 23 children. And, basically came from, once a very famous land owning family that had fallen upon on hard times. And, unlike many other revolutionaries in Mexico, he didn't actually believe in the revolution. He was a fan of the old regime of portfolio Diaz until the revolution started

03:58 - and threatened instability to, in his, border, border state of Sonora. And, so when that, when Sonora became, essentially a, a theater, a battleground between, the Sonoran State government that had been democratically elected after the real revolution and the forces of, Pasqua Orozco, he opted to, join the revolution in defense of his state government. So it was a little unusual in

04:26 - that he wasn't a hero on horseback who took up arms against the government, but he actually took of arms for the state government and, defended it against the invaders from Chihuahua. that then, basically sets up his la later attitude. there's a coup deta in 20 19 13 that brings to power the old regime, basically under general Victoriano Huta. And so, again, the sold regime threatened Sonora as a state. And so Brion intervenes and, defends the state and, helps defeat Huta along with the famous Pancho Viga

05:04 - and, ano and Carranza. And then after the, the victory of that coalition, he turns against via his old ally, because Viga is from Chihuahua, and that's the same people who invaded Sonora when he started the revolution. And so he once again, takes up, basically weapons against, so Nora's neighboring state, and, then really ends the revolution by winning it. he's not initially made president that goes

05:35 - to a civilian ano Carranza, but he's super ambitious. And I think it's, what's interesting about him is his military genius and also his entrepreneurial skill, but coupled with almost, no adherence to any dominant ideology. So this is somebody who, wasn't ideological, didn't believe in ideas, but believed very much in power. He, he believed in, making things happen that he wanted, or that he interpreted the people wanting to happen.

06:05 - So in 1920, he is at the head of a coalition, that overthrows Carranza government, because Carranza busy making sure that the Sonoran never become, dominant in Mexico, and then, really brings his friends into the Capitol when, that revolution triumphs in May 1920s and governs it for the next 15 years. What we know, about the patriarch of the revolution is that he very much relied on his, support, among the military and in Congress where he had a lot

06:40 - of friends, whom he had helped get congressional seats. He had some ties to Mexican mass organizations, particularly, peasant organizations. but even in power, he never was ideological. I mean, he was basically a deal maker. I don't wanna make too many parallels to the or, or, or former US president who also writes about the art of the deal. But if there ever was a Mexican art of the deal, then I think we would've gone embodied that the, the,

07:09 - facility to, basically Triangulate And make, the deals that he needed. so over time, he loses quite a bit of support, and in 1924, he tries to install plu. That's where he, of course, he's his main Ally. He thinks that Cas is weak, and so he confronts the Civil War, when he tries to do that. but the government wins.

07:34 - And then CAAs is, the president for the next four years. so in 1927, you could say that he's the most important military and political leader in Mexico, even though he is not president, then he's very much dominant in Mexican political affairs. And then he makes a very great mistake of running for president again. which was something that the Mexican constitution

08:00 - of 1917 had prohibited, and they, it had prohibited reelection because polio Diaz the own pre the old president had won 10 presidential elections. And so they didn't want that to be possible again. And so, when he had himself reelected, there was once again, an uprising against him. he killed his opponents and was then himself assassinated by a Catholic radical who was unhappy about, the policy

08:29 - that I can discuss in a minute of flu towards the church. so his, the, the end of his life is really tragic, assassinated on the eve, of a second presidency. But one of the reasons why I think he still fondly remembered is first of all, his sense of humor, And then also the, the, the, sense that he died in the line of fire, right? Right. Americans are also fond of, John F. Kennedy for, for example, who died in office. Abraham Lincoln was shot in office.

09:02 - So when, when we have presidents who were killed in, the discharge of their office, we kind of give 'em some bonus points because they, they have points of martyrs. And so, and to, to some extent, even though he was authoritarian, unimaginative and not ideological, not interested in really bringing lasting social change to Mexico, let alone deliver, the land and labor reforms that the poor and Mexico who de desperately wanted.

09:33 - Despite all of that, he's fondly remembered. And there are many things that Mexico named after him. He was actually older than him by, by three years, but also came from a family that was poor at the time of his birth, but that had had considerable influence. earlier on, like Obregon, he was a white as a descendant of Spaniards. And, so, like Obregon, he wants to make, basically his family status whole again and achieve, the wealth and prominence of his Forbes.

10:05 - the difference, with CAAs is that he is not a very good military leader. and he is also not a very good entrepreneur. So, as he tries out, both of these careers early on in the revolution, he fails it either. But the one thing, that he does better than obregon develop political ideas, CAAs does have a set of political ideas. And, for lack of a better word, I would say that a lot

10:32 - of these ideas revolved around nationalism and, some sense of, European, of social democracy. So he wanted, to have a government that would dis redistribute at least some resources to the poor. And, that would also be dedicated to building up Mexican infrastructure projects to reduce, to basically build wealth in Mexico, but also reduce its dependence from the United States.

11:00 - so, so, so Kayan like ob is a more civilian figure despite his general rank. And, he does have a, a lot of political ideas. And so one of the dominant political ideas in CAEs is his antipathy to the Roman Catholic Church, which he considers responsible for a lot of the bad things that have happened in Mexico since the Spanish conquest, in particularly the existence of a small landed elite. basically in close collaboration, with the government, he believed that the church,

11:35 - encouraged on authoritarianism in Mexico that they, had way too much power and influence that they, held people in ignorance. He was a school teacher once, and he wanted to, basically wanted free public education. And so he thought that the church, is in the way of all of this, and that basically, the church in Mexico is a state within the state that limits Mexico from becoming a strong nation.

12:01 - 'cause so many Mexicans, rich and poor, are loyal to the Pope and to the popes, bishops and archbishops in Mexico. And so, again, unlike ob, CAAs pursues this with great vigor. And so when he becomes president, he has a very strong year initially where he is able to do a lot of the things that he wants socially. So he, puts new, restrictions on a foreign owned oil industry.

12:31 - they found the Bunko de Mexico, which was a central bank, which they hadn't had. He starts an ambitious road building project, but then his mistake is in basically waging war on the church is passing a law, that criminalizes a lot of ministry activities, such as, for, for example, leading an outdoor religious procession in the public's place, which the 20 19 17, the Constitution has for forbidden, such as exceeding, the number of priests that the government has prescribed.

13:02 - So, so, so kayas takes the war to the church, which responds with a so-called Al Rebellion, and a total strike where the, churches could no longer, hold religious ceremonies or, even do baptisms or anything like that in public, in the, in, in the places of, formal worship. They still do it clandestinely in people's private homes and so on. But there's a church strike that gets rid of all kind of public worship, this church strike.

13:33 - And the C war then is what tarnishes, CA's legacy, because it, turns out to be a way that he's antagonized. of course, a good part of the Mexican population. In 1927, a major economic crisis hits two years before the, the Depression, and, forces him to bring ob going back basically into a position where he's Kai's main advisor. he, his, luck perhaps, was

14:03 - that Obregon was assassinated in 1928. And so after that, he's the only strong man that remained from the duo. So his former patron and boss has been assassinated, and he manages through, several, very clever maneuvers to bring a lot of the obregon, supports, behind him. and, so he serves out his presidency, and then for six years, becomes what his opponents called the,

14:33 - or the Supreme Chief of the Mexican Revolution. And this is the period when, they found the new ruling party, the party re which is today the, the pre or the party revolution. Again, a very powerful party that governs for 71 years and returns to power under Pen Nieto in 2012 for six more years. And, it's during the, this time that despite this, great Depression, that he does a lot of the constructive work that, I think he run, run on

15:09 - as, as a candidate, but at the same time, he becomes very politically conservative and corrupt. So this is a time when, the governments of Mexico, become very corrupt. And where he, even though he doesn't have a formal portfolio, plays, quite a bit large role behind the scenes, especially in the presidency of Pasquale Ortiz Rubio from 1930 to 1932. So during the, the Maxi Matos often been portrayed

15:39 - as a very difficult time, in Mexican history, and is a very corrupt one, and a lot of that is true. But as I show in these two chapters, e CAAs didn't have as much influence during the time as it's believed. And in the last two years, when his friend, Abba La Rodriguez becomes the last Sonoran to be, to become president of Mexico, he actually adopts a lot of the progressive legislation, a lot of pro worker and pro president legislation that La Cardena will use to revive the revolution in the period following Lia CAAs.

16:12 - So, even as, CAAs then, of course has a conflict with Cardenas and is sent into exile for basically conspiring against the Cardenas government. I would say in many ways, the CAAs period, if you look at these 10 years from 1924 to 1934, lay a lot of the important foundations of the smo. So one of the important contributions of the book is that we not look at the sono and s opposites, but that we look at it as an evolution from one group to the other.

16:44 - So the group's downfall is definitely tied to two things. Now, number one, of course, it's become very small. So, it starts off with, dozens of people in the 1910s. I, I I, I only study 11 people in this book. but then as we see, in each chapter is that there are disagreements among the group that reduces its number. So a lot of people are sent to exiles and others are murdered.

17:11 - And of course, the last one to be murdered is OB himself. But before that, Francisco Serrano and Alfo Gomez are murdered, by, the OB in 1927. And in 1924, basically, Adolfo Deta sent it to exile, and two others are murdered. So, first of all, the group becomes small as a result of the con the conflict within it. number two, the, Maximoto with CAAs as an informal, kind of influencer

17:46 - of the government, over time will make the party more, more, important than the Sonoran Group. and that is because, the party that Kai is founded in 1929 becomes more and more important in Mexican public life. And so, increasingly, a group like the Sonoran Group that is based on personal loyalty will lose out to a party machine that really become,

18:11 - starts becoming strong in 1933. So when Kaas becomes the official candidate in December, 1933, Cardenas is able to relatively quickly get the loyalty of a lot of the party behind him. And so, even though, most of the ca is, the party is still CA's loyalists, these younger intellectuals and politicians in generals who are now part of the group they knew, they know that there's the president incoming and are basically waiting, who's gonna be stronger, stronger

18:43 - between the two of them Carter than us and ca And when CAEs makes a mistake of, criticizing Ana in public and Kana strikes back by shaking up the cabinet, it's relatively easy for these people who had always supported Cas because they simply didn't know any other authority to then relatively quickly change their mind and change their allegiance that, they find. And so, what, what I, show there is basically

19:15 - what a social scientist is called. The preference cascade is you have something that approaches a consensus, but that relies on the, the beliefs that everybody else thinks the same way. And so, for for years, CAAs and his friends were seen as the inevitable ruler. But once that gets questioned by a shock to the system, and certainly the depression is a shock to the system, and the election of is shock to the system,

19:41 - it's relatively easy for a few people changing allegiance to then set off a chain reaction in which the entire Mexican political class who were opportunistic all of a sudden become opportunistic. Es. The reason why that is important is that Ka Cardenas himself will only be able to really promote progressive reforms for three or four years, is that these people at the end of his government will once again turn the right turn to the right and limit Kanas from some of these things

20:14 - that he, that they were doing. So to some extent, the downfall from the group was probably inevitable based on the aging and thinning of the group. But a lot of it really does go back to that, final showdown between CAAs and Ka us. So readers who are very far away, I think will read a very tragic story of, power, corruption and betrayal. They will see a group of once enthusiastic young men,

20:40 - and they're all men, who coincided in wanting a better future, with, for Mexico, who ganged together and defeated, basically reactionary and militaristic regime, and then their enemies on the other side of the revolution. And what they will see beginning in chapter four is a group that eats each other, basically a group that consumes in itself with, corruption, ambition and repression.

21:10 - so that in the end, it becomes so weak and so thin that it's relatively easy to overthrow. So I, I'm, I'm hoping that, readers will show, will, will learn, how power is acquired, how it is wielded, and how it is lost in the end.

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