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To Educate American Indians

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Larry C. Skogen presents the most complete versions of papers presented at the National Educational Association’s Department of Indian Education meetings during a time when the debate about how best to “civilize” Indigenous populations dominated discussions.

Image courtesy of interviewee. February 21, 2024

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The speaker recounts their journey of researching federal Indian policy while in graduate school. They were initially confused by discussions around "civilizing Indians" from the late 19th to early 20th centuries. This video video led them to explore primary documents, including the journal of the National Education Association, where they learned about the short-lived Department of Indian Education (1900-1909).

The speaker highlights the conflicting educational philosophies during this period, primarily the Assimilationist philosophy, which believed Native Americans could become American citizens by abandoning their culture, as espoused by figures like Richard Pratt. In contrast, there were progressive educators who viewed Native Americans through a lens of scientific racism, believing they were inherently inferior and only suited for labor roles.

The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding the perspectives of Indian educators and the broader implications of their beliefs, including how these views influenced the education of immigrants, as Indian education models were seen as applicable to other non-Protestant, non-Anglo-Saxon immigrant groups arriving in America at the time. The research underscores the deep-rooted complexities in the historical approaches to Native American education.

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X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

00:00.155 --> 00:01.845
When I was in graduate school

00:02.025 --> 00:05.285
and I first started studying seriously the topic

00:05.545 --> 00:09.485
of federal Indian policy, I was struck by the number

00:09.485 --> 00:12.005
of times that officials were talking about

00:12.135 --> 00:13.365
civilizing Indians.

00:14.065 --> 00:18.005
And I didn't know what that meant from the late 18 hundreds,

00:18.065 --> 00:19.405
the early 19 hundreds.

00:19.485 --> 00:21.165
What did they mean? I, I sort

00:21.165 --> 00:23.045
of figured Indians had a civilization,

00:23.945 --> 00:25.925
but all government policy was directed

00:25.945 --> 00:28.565
to civilizing American Indians.

00:29.305 --> 00:31.645
And so, I was in a graduate seminar

00:31.825 --> 00:34.045
and I asked the professor what did they mean?

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And he said, well, great question,

00:35.715 --> 00:37.125
just like a good professor would

00:37.345 --> 00:38.765
and say, why don't you come back

00:38.765 --> 00:39.765
and tell us what they meant?

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So I started digging into contemporary documents from

00:43.535 --> 00:47.375
that time, published documents and journals and magazines,

00:47.395 --> 00:48.855
and trying to understand

00:48.855 --> 00:51.295
what they meant when they said they were civilizing Indians.

00:51.855 --> 00:55.635
And I stumbled literally across the, journal

00:55.855 --> 00:57.435
of the addresses

00:57.435 --> 01:00.715
and proceedings of the National Education Association.

01:01.585 --> 01:06.125
And I found out that for a time, from 1900 to 1909,

01:06.755 --> 01:10.685
they actually had a Department of Indian Education.

01:11.675 --> 01:14.495
And so I started reading those documents,

01:15.075 --> 01:17.735
and the more I read 'em, the more questions came up.

01:18.315 --> 01:22.255
So, for example, were these, the actual papers

01:22.325 --> 01:23.895
that were given at the conference?

01:24.355 --> 01:26.295
Who were the people that delivered the papers?

01:26.555 --> 01:30.655
Who, you know, who was Oscar Bankless? Who was AJ standing?

01:30.835 --> 01:34.135
Who were these people? And what I was really interested in

01:34.755 --> 01:37.055
is, was it the paper that was given?

01:37.195 --> 01:38.295
Who was, who gave it?

01:38.355 --> 01:39.855
And what was the circumstances

01:40.005 --> 01:42.055
that year under which that paper was given?

01:43.025 --> 01:45.205
So I always had that in the back of my mind,

01:45.665 --> 01:48.285
and so I decided that I would dig into that.

01:48.745 --> 01:52.365
And so I've spent a number of years now trying to find,

01:52.545 --> 01:55.365
and I've, and I've found a number of them, of papers

01:56.195 --> 01:59.245
that are, because in the journals they

01:59.245 --> 02:00.405
were called abstracts.

02:01.145 --> 02:04.885
And so I found a number of the papers that in full,

02:05.115 --> 02:06.445
that were published elsewhere.

02:06.905 --> 02:08.285
So we really know what those

02:08.805 --> 02:12.445
educators were telling their colleagues, number one.

02:12.825 --> 02:15.725
Number two, we know who they were

02:16.505 --> 02:18.085
and what their background was,

02:18.545 --> 02:21.085
and then what the circumstances were of that.

02:21.225 --> 02:24.165
Uh, annual meeting of the NEA for historians.

02:24.385 --> 02:26.245
The internet is a fabulous tool.

02:27.265 --> 02:32.165
And, I actually seriously got into doing this research

02:32.305 --> 02:34.625
during Covid and,

02:34.885 --> 02:38.185
and I just retired from the presidency of, college.

02:38.885 --> 02:41.905
And I started working on trying to gather these papers.

02:42.045 --> 02:44.865
And I just found out that the internet is wonderful,

02:45.945 --> 02:49.225
archivists, all over the country and overseas

02:49.225 --> 02:51.145
because I found, some

02:51.145 --> 02:54.345
of the information I needed in England, for example.

02:54.805 --> 02:58.865
Um, so archivists all over the world have really done

02:59.005 --> 03:02.605
Their work to get these documents available to people.

03:03.185 --> 03:06.405
And so, so I, I used the internet

03:06.465 --> 03:07.565
for a large part of it.

03:08.185 --> 03:11.165
And then as I did the research, I found out that

03:11.165 --> 03:16.025
what I was really researching here is the superintendency

03:16.085 --> 03:18.345
of a woman by the name of Estelle Reel,

03:18.605 --> 03:23.225
who was superintendent of Indian schools from 1898 to 1910.

03:24.045 --> 03:26.905
And there are two archives, one in the state of Washington

03:26.905 --> 03:28.985
and one in the state of Wyoming that hold her papers.

03:29.645 --> 03:32.625
And so I went to those archives, corresponded

03:32.625 --> 03:35.545
with those archives, and I got her papers as well.

03:36.245 --> 03:39.465
And so I could put the whole story together of that 10 years

03:39.645 --> 03:41.505
of the Department of Indian Education.

03:42.365 --> 03:43.905
So we're very fortunate

03:43.905 --> 03:46.985
that this department existed at a point in time

03:47.645 --> 03:49.385
in which we were exposed

03:49.605 --> 03:52.425
to two different philosophies about

03:52.895 --> 03:54.785
educating American Indians.

03:55.605 --> 03:57.295
That first philosophy,

03:57.465 --> 04:01.095
we'll call the Assimilationist philosophy,

04:01.095 --> 04:02.935
really came out of the age of Enlightenment.

04:03.435 --> 04:05.855
And out of that age, folks believed

04:05.855 --> 04:09.895
that Native Americans could become American citizens as long

04:09.895 --> 04:11.215
as they quit being Indians.

04:11.795 --> 04:14.135
It was, it was believed that their,

04:14.225 --> 04:16.495
their culture was what held them back.

04:17.195 --> 04:18.775
And so Richard Pratt,

04:18.775 --> 04:21.135
who founded Carlisle Indian Industrial School,

04:21.165 --> 04:23.375
said it most bluntly when he said,

04:23.805 --> 04:25.575
kill the Indian and save the man.

04:26.775 --> 04:28.195
And so the idea was

04:28.225 --> 04:31.275
that Indians could become American citizens just like

04:32.345 --> 04:35.855
their white neighbors, but they had to quit being Indians.

04:36.625 --> 04:40.715
Well, then that philosophy then hits

04:41.345 --> 04:45.075
head on with the philosophy of the progressive educators

04:45.775 --> 04:47.755
at the time that there was a department.

04:47.775 --> 04:49.995
So we got to see both of these arguments

04:50.535 --> 04:52.075
in this 10 year span.

04:52.175 --> 04:56.835
We got to see the ascension of the argument by those

04:56.865 --> 04:58.555
that believe in scientific racism.

04:59.295 --> 05:01.035
Uh, Estelle Real, for example,

05:01.095 --> 05:03.275
the superintendent meeting schools was one of those.

05:04.015 --> 05:08.435
And what these folks believed is that, evolution

05:09.015 --> 05:12.155
was a process and there was no way to speed up evolution.

05:12.575 --> 05:16.235
And as a result of that, American Indians were further

05:16.495 --> 05:18.035
behind whites.

05:18.855 --> 05:20.715
And so they believed that

05:21.555 --> 05:24.075
American Indians could not be educated at the same level

05:24.075 --> 05:27.315
that whites could, and those were the progressive educators.

05:27.895 --> 05:29.915
And so the result is then

05:29.945 --> 05:32.875
what we see in the papers is we see this conflict

05:33.535 --> 05:38.155
at the beginning of say, 1900 to 19 0 1, 19 0 2,

05:38.815 --> 05:41.595
between these total assimilationists

05:41.905 --> 05:44.595
that believe the Indians would quit being Indians,

05:44.595 --> 05:46.755
they could be good American citizens,

05:47.255 --> 05:51.635
and on the other hand, the scientific racists that believe

05:51.785 --> 05:54.555
that the Indians could never be equal to the whites.

05:55.175 --> 05:58.765
And so we see that head-on collision going on in the

05:58.765 --> 06:00.165
Department of Indian Education.

06:01.035 --> 06:04.095
And, the, those, the,

06:04.155 --> 06:07.815
the scientific racists believed that the best way

06:07.815 --> 06:10.935
to educate Indians was just to, to educate them

06:10.935 --> 06:12.015
as a laboring class.

06:12.875 --> 06:16.455
Um, Estelle Rio, the superintendent of Indian Education,

06:16.605 --> 06:19.975
said that Indians could not understand higher mathematics.

06:20.555 --> 06:23.255
Um, all they needed to do is learn how to be servants

06:23.255 --> 06:24.975
or to learn how to be laborers.

06:25.755 --> 06:28.055
And so that's where we see that conflict.

06:28.355 --> 06:30.545
So we're fortunate in,

06:30.765 --> 06:32.825
as a historian from a historical perspective,

06:32.875 --> 06:36.625
we're fortunate in being able to see the clash

06:36.845 --> 06:38.025
of those two ideas.

06:38.365 --> 06:40.625
At, at the time when there was a Department

06:40.625 --> 06:43.465
of Indian Education, I'm hopeful that people will take

06:44.095 --> 06:46.105
basically two things and maybe a third.

06:46.375 --> 06:50.225
Okay. The first is a real understanding of

06:50.535 --> 06:54.065
what Indian educators thought about their students.

06:55.075 --> 06:57.095
Um, when you're running a school

06:57.355 --> 07:00.495
and you believe that the students do not have the capacity

07:00.595 --> 07:02.935
to get educated, and all they're going

07:02.935 --> 07:06.695
to be is a laboring class, you know, that's,

07:06.695 --> 07:08.055
that's really an astounding thing.

07:08.055 --> 07:10.015
And it's, it's a depressing thing to hear

07:10.485 --> 07:13.495
that these educators believe that about their students,

07:13.675 --> 07:16.855
the progressive educators, for example.

07:17.595 --> 07:20.095
Um, so that's one thing I want people to know,

07:20.565 --> 07:24.095
what Indian educators were saying about their own students.

07:24.755 --> 07:28.815
The other thing is the acceptance of this by the

07:29.615 --> 07:32.535
national education folks, the

07:33.175 --> 07:35.975
American intelligence at the time bought into this.

07:36.805 --> 07:39.145
Um, and, and they began to see

07:39.145 --> 07:42.905
what the Indian educators were doing might be good for the,

07:43.325 --> 07:46.025
immigrant Jews or the immigrant Russians,

07:46.045 --> 07:50.665
or the immigrant Italians, you know, the non Protestant,

07:51.005 --> 07:52.985
non Anglo-Saxon immigrants

07:52.985 --> 07:54.425
that were flooding into the country.

07:55.005 --> 07:58.305
And so they saw Indian education as a model

07:58.965 --> 08:01.825
for educating the masses as they were coming

08:01.845 --> 08:02.985
to America Shores.

00:00 - When I was in graduate school and I first started studying seriously the topic of federal Indian policy, I was struck by the number of times that officials were talking about civilizing Indians. And I didn't know what that meant from the late 18 hundreds,

00:18 - the early 19 hundreds. What did they mean? I, I sort of figured Indians had a civilization, but all government policy was directed to civilizing American Indians. And so, I was in a graduate seminar and I asked the professor what did they mean? And he said, well, great question, just like a good professor would and say, why don't you come back

00:38 - and tell us what they meant? So I started digging into contemporary documents from that time, published documents and journals and magazines, and trying to understand what they meant when they said they were civilizing Indians. And I stumbled literally across the, journal of the addresses and proceedings of the National Education Association. And I found out that for a time, from 1900 to 1909, they actually had a Department of Indian Education.

01:11 - And so I started reading those documents, and the more I read 'em, the more questions came up. So, for example, were these, the actual papers that were given at the conference? Who were the people that delivered the papers? Who, you know, who was Oscar Bankless? Who was AJ standing? Who were these people? And what I was really interested in is, was it the paper that was given? Who was, who gave it? And what was the circumstances

01:40 - that year under which that paper was given? So I always had that in the back of my mind, and so I decided that I would dig into that. And so I've spent a number of years now trying to find, and I've, and I've found a number of them, of papers that are, because in the journals they were called abstracts. And so I found a number of the papers that in full, that were published elsewhere. So we really know what those

02:08 - educators were telling their colleagues, number one. Number two, we know who they were and what their background was, and then what the circumstances were of that. annual meeting of the NEA for historians. The internet is a fabulous tool. And, I actually seriously got into doing this research during Covid and, and I just retired from the presidency of, college. And I started working on trying to gather these papers.

02:42 - And I just found out that the internet is wonderful, archivists, all over the country and overseas because I found, some of the information I needed in England, for example. so archivists all over the world have really done Their work to get these documents available to people. And so, so I, I used the internet for a large part of it. And then as I did the research, I found out that what I was really researching here is the superintendency

03:16 - of a woman by the name of Estelle Reel, who was superintendent of Indian schools from 1898 to 1910. And there are two archives, one in the state of Washington and one in the state of Wyoming that hold her papers. And so I went to those archives, corresponded with those archives, and I got her papers as well. And so I could put the whole story together of that 10 years of the Department of Indian Education. So we're very fortunate that this department existed at a point in time

03:47 - in which we were exposed to two different philosophies about educating American Indians. That first philosophy, we'll call the Assimilationist philosophy, really came out of the age of Enlightenment. And out of that age, folks believed that Native Americans could become American citizens as long as they quit being Indians. It was, it was believed that their,

04:14 - their culture was what held them back. And so Richard Pratt, who founded Carlisle Indian Industrial School, said it most bluntly when he said, kill the Indian and save the man. And so the idea was that Indians could become American citizens just like their white neighbors, but they had to quit being Indians. Well, then that philosophy then hits head on with the philosophy of the progressive educators

04:45 - at the time that there was a department. So we got to see both of these arguments in this 10 year span. We got to see the ascension of the argument by those that believe in scientific racism. Estelle Real, for example, the superintendent meeting schools was one of those. And what these folks believed is that, evolution was a process and there was no way to speed up evolution. And as a result of that, American Indians were further

05:16 - behind whites. And so they believed that American Indians could not be educated at the same level that whites could, and those were the progressive educators. And so the result is then what we see in the papers is we see this conflict at the beginning of say, 1900 to 19 0 1, 19 0 2, between these total assimilationists that believe the Indians would quit being Indians, they could be good American citizens,

05:47 - and on the other hand, the scientific racists that believe that the Indians could never be equal to the whites. And so we see that head-on collision going on in the Department of Indian Education. And, the, those, the, the scientific racists believed that the best way to educate Indians was just to, to educate them as a laboring class. Estelle Rio, the superintendent of Indian Education, said that Indians could not understand higher mathematics.

06:20 - all they needed to do is learn how to be servants or to learn how to be laborers. And so that's where we see that conflict. So we're fortunate in, as a historian from a historical perspective, we're fortunate in being able to see the clash of those two ideas. At, at the time when there was a Department of Indian Education, I'm hopeful that people will take basically two things and maybe a third.

06:46 - Okay. The first is a real understanding of what Indian educators thought about their students. when you're running a school and you believe that the students do not have the capacity to get educated, and all they're going to be is a laboring class, you know, that's, that's really an astounding thing. And it's, it's a depressing thing to hear that these educators believe that about their students, the progressive educators, for example.

07:17 - so that's one thing I want people to know, what Indian educators were saying about their own students. The other thing is the acceptance of this by the national education folks, the American intelligence at the time bought into this. and, and they began to see what the Indian educators were doing might be good for the, immigrant Jews or the immigrant Russians, or the immigrant Italians, you know, the non Protestant, non Anglo-Saxon immigrants

07:52 - that were flooding into the country. And so they saw Indian education as a model for educating the masses as they were coming to America Shores.

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