When Everything Is Human, the Human Is an Entirely Different Thing

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Vita Lucarelli discusses the ancient Egyptian demonic imagery of animal and hybrid figures, according to anthropological studies and theories of perspectivism

Website: https://3dcoffins.berkeley.edu/

Image courtesy of interviewee. July 30, 2024

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In an interview, Vita discusses her study on the representation of monsters and fantastic animals in ancient Egyptian culture. She aimed to take a more anthropological approach, drawing inspiration from how different disciplines view monsters, rather than adhering strictly to traditional Egyptological methodologies. This video involved exploring the ancient Egyptian worldview and understanding fantastic creatures as embodiments of cultural concepts and ideas.

Vita references Jeffrey Cohen's "Monster Theory," particularly focusing on three of his theses related to monsters: their cultural significance, their tendency to escape representation, and their role in reflecting category crises. She emphasizes the importance of these fantastic beings in navigating the liminal space between life and death in ancient Egyptian beliefs.

Additionally, she touches on her research into ancient Egyptian demonology, which reveals that many demon figures are hybrid or composite animals representing different agency in the cultural context. She mentions using anthropological theories to understand how Egyptians viewed these creatures and their roles from a non-traditional perspective.

Vita expresses hope that her work will encourage new approaches in Egyptology, particularly regarding the study of ancient beliefs and their connections to magic and ritual practices. She anticipates further research and is currently working on a monograph titled "Agents of Punishment and Protection," focusing on the agency of these beings in relation to human experiences. The feedback from her peers has been positive, highlighting the significance of her interdisciplinary approach to understanding ancient Egyptian culture.

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Here are some key quotes from the video that capture the primary ideas and themes discussed:

1. **Different Approach to Monsters in Egyptology**:
- "With this article, I wanted to try something different from... a more traditional Egyptological study of... what we call monsters or fantastic animals in ancient Egypt."

2. **Interdisciplinary Approach**:
- "I tried a different approach, more anthropological approach... looking at other ways, in which other scholars from other disciplines look at monsters."

3. **Inspiration from Other Cultures**:
- "Looking at other cultures and the way other scholars, especially anthropologists, look at monsters... helped me to understand what fantastic animals... are about."

4. **Monster Theory**:
- "Monster theory is a very fascinating field... aims at explaining what monsters are in different cultures."

5. **Cohen’s Seven Theses**:
- "In particular, actually an essay by Jeffrey Cohen, called The Monster Theory, monster Culture seven thesis... in order to understand cultures through their own monsters."

6. **The Concept of Liminality**:
- "Those animal powers... represent... the liminality, the crisis, the human crisis between... life and death, and the new life."

7. **Agency of Creatures**:
- "What I try to see is not just historical origin, but also the agency of those creatures."

8. **Inverted Perspective**:
- "We become the prey and... they are the hunters."

9. **Anthropological Theories**:
- "Using anthropological theories and methods... we can maybe achieve new understandings of this ancient culture."

10. **The Integral Role of Magic**:
- "Magic for the ancient Egyptians was an integral part of religion... the aim of those compositions was to make something happen magically."

11. **New Terminology**:
- "I don't even call them demons anymore... I really focus on the agency of those beings and what they do and how they relate to humankind."

These quotes effectively encapsulate the essence of the author's exploration of monsters in ancient Egyptian culture and the interdisciplinary methodologies employed to understand their significance.

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Here are some articles and topics that align with the themes and ideas presented in your video about Vita's study of monsters and fantastic animals in ancient Egyptian culture:

1. **Monsters in Mythology and Religion**: Articles that analyze the role of monsters and fantastic beings in various mythologies, focusing on their cultural and symbolic significance. This can include studies of hybrid creatures in other ancient cultures, such as Mesopotamian or Greek civilizations.

2. **Anthropological Approaches to Egyptology**: Research that explores how contemporary anthropological methods can be applied to the study of ancient Egyptian beliefs, focusing on the representation of deities, spirits, and other supernatural entities in their culture.

3. **Cohen’s Monster Theory in Comparative Mythology**: Discussions or critiques of Jeffrey Cohen's "Monster Theory," particularly those that examine its application to different cultures and convideos beyond the ancient Egyptians.

4. **Liminality in Ancient Beliefs**: Articles investigating the concept of liminality in ancient societies, especially how beings that exist between life and death (such as gods, demons, and monsters) are understood in various cultural convideos.

5. **Demonology Across Cultures**: Comparative studies of demonology in ancient cultures, exploring how different societies crafted their narratives around demons, hybrids, and monstrous beings, highlighting their roles and meanings.

6. **Interdisciplinary Research in Ancient Studies**: Essays that advocate for and demonstrate the benefits of incorporating interdisciplinary perspectives in the study of ancient history, archaeology, or literature.

7. **Magic and Rituals in Ancient Egypt**: Research focusing on the intertwined nature of magic, ritual practices, and beliefs in ancient Egyptian society, including the role of monsters and fantastic figures in these practices.

8. **Agency of Non-Human Entities**: Studies that delve into the philosophical and cultural discourse surrounding the agency attributed to non-human entities, including animals, demons, and supernatural beings in various traditions.

9. **Symbolism of Animals in Ancient Cultures**: Articles that analyze the symbolism of animals, both real and fantastic, in ancient societies, including their representation in art, literature, and myth.

These articles can provide a broader convideo for understanding the significance of Vita's work and the themes discussed in her research.

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With this article, I wanted

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to try something different from,

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a more traditional Egypt logical study of,

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what we call monsters or fantastic animals in ancient Egypt.

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Uh, what I did was not just comparing images

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and text related to these fantastic creatures in

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between themselves, within the Egyptian,

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worldview

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and within the sources we have from ancient Egypt.

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But I tried, a different approach,

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more anthropological approach.

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So what I did was looking at other ways,

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in which other scholars from other disciplines

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look at monsters.

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And so I did that

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because I, I needed some new inspiration in order to,

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to study those creatures.

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I had the feeling that the Egyptian text

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and images were alluding, alluding to,

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certain concepts and ideas without explaining them.

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And so looking at other cultures

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and the way other scholars, especially anthropologists,

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look at monsters, in other, cultures,

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not only ancient, but also modern, helped me to understand,

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what fantastic animals,

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or also just what I call animal powers in the ancient

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Egyptian world, are about monster theory is,

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very fascinating.

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I think field, I wouldn't, it is not the discipline.

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It is really an interdisciplinary field, that,

01:41.635 --> 01:46.365
aims at explaining what monsters are in different cultures.

01:46.585 --> 01:50.645
And to do so, they use philosophical

01:51.765 --> 01:55.965
literary studies, anthropological studies, historicals,

01:56.145 --> 01:58.325
art historian historical studies.

01:59.105 --> 02:03.885
Um, in particular, I, I was as an Egyptologist,

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I found very interesting reading, some

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of the classics of monster theories.

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Um, in particular, actually an essay by,

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Jeffrey Cohen, called The Monster Theory,

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monster Culture seven, seven thesis that's dated

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to 1996.

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And, so what Cohen, does is offering seven thesis,

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in order to understand cultures, cultures through

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their own monsters.

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And so in this thesis, in use some,

02:44.045 --> 02:46.925
general frames of understanding of monsters,

02:47.435 --> 02:49.805
what those monsters tell about the culture.

02:50.505 --> 02:54.085
Um, I did not use the seven thesis in, in this article.

02:54.565 --> 02:58.645
I started, I hope to do that, to do more in the future,

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But I try to see if it would work out

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with the first three thesis that were also, I think from

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my geological perspective, the, the ones

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that apply better to, to my own sources.

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And so, and those three thesis were actually the first one,

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about the body of monsters.

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So the thesis is the thesis,

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the monster's body is a cultural body.

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Uh, the second was about the fact

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that the monster always escapes.

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So the monster doesn't really die, is not killed,

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but very often just escapes and then come back.

03:37.385 --> 03:39.685
And this is what we found in the Egyptian sources.

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And the third is about the monster as a sort of, older,

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herbinger, her herbinger of, category crisis.

03:50.465 --> 03:53.165
And indeed those, animal powers,

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these fantastic animals, that I seen,

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represented and mentioned in the ancient Egyptian world,

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are creatures that, act,

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function within some liminal spaces in times,

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in this, in this passage from life on earth to death,

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and then life in another world.

04:18.105 --> 04:22.445
So what they represent is really the liminality, the, the,

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the crisis, the human crisis between those two dimensions,

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life and death, and the new life.

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Um, and so those, I applied in the, in the papers, the,

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the three thesis and, used,

04:37.275 --> 04:40.765
some Egyptian evidence while the, the readers can,

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look then into the details of them, of those,

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kind of, sources.

04:46.625 --> 04:51.445
So I used both textual and, iconographic.

04:51.985 --> 04:53.565
I'm currently writing,

04:53.765 --> 04:56.685
a larger monograph on ancient Egyptian demons.

04:57.425 --> 04:59.725
And, what is really peculiar

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of the ancient Egyptian demonology is that most

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of those creatures are hybrid creatures,

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or what other colleagues call composite animals.

05:12.625 --> 05:17.365
And so I've been asking why animals are so important in, in,

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in the, the majory of, the, the other words,

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in strategic, and why many of those animals

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and composite animals are represented as demons.

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Uh, and so, basically, in my analysis,

05:36.865 --> 05:41.845
the key aspect is trying to understand, about the agency

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of those creatures.

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So not really try to define what they are

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or if they are connected to, real historical animal.

05:52.505 --> 05:57.365
Um, and this is where crypto cryptozoology,

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comes, useful

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because cryptozoology, it's, it's not really a discipline.

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It's more a subculture, looking at trying to reco,

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attempting to reconstruct the historical origin of,

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some animals or monsters.

06:12.705 --> 06:17.525
Uh, but what I try to, to see is not just historical origin,

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but also, the agency of those, creatures.

06:22.465 --> 06:25.805
And, what I, especially,

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focus on in this paper is, the fact that,

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when those animals are represented,

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without a clear function, so not like other kind

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of demons who have a specific function, for instance,

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they're guardians of the gates,

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or they are punishers, they have clear names,

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but there are those animal figures that seems not

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to have a real function, at least in it's not safe.

06:53.225 --> 06:54.845
So by looking at,

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the anthropological theories like perspective is

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so looking from other perspectives,

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this is used especially in the, in studies

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of Amazonian cultures, where not only humans,

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but also animals, plants, they have, individualities,

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they have, inner persona as,

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the Castro one or the authors I mentioned, says.

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And so, what I, I try

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to see these animals represented in the Egyptian.

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Other words as, agents,

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looking at themselves almost from, a human perspective

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and seeing the deceased,

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the passerby in this Egyptian network as a sort of prey.

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Uh, of course, this was the human conception, the, the,

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the Egyptians that probably they talked, the, the,

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another word is not an empty place, is plenty of gods.

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There's plenty of guardian demons, other kind of demons.

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It's also plenty of animals who are there

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to almost ch chase us.

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And so we became, we become the praise

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and, they are the hunters.

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So it's a sort of inverted perspective to

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what we are used to think.

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Like, we, we are the hunters of the animal.

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The animal is the prey, but not in this perspective.

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And so, I, I used also theories of

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what anthropologists called multiculturalism, multi,

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culturalism that is about, creatures,

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that have a different nature, different bodies,

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but the, they belong to the same culture.

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And so this will be the case of those animals

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that are almost humanized,

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because they belong to the same culture of the Egyptians,

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of the ancient Egyptians, so to, to their human world.

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Uh, so I, I try to use this perspective,

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and it kind of helped me to look at these, depictions

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and also to the, those ancient magical text that we found,

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attested in papyri, but also on tomb walls

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and other objects,

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and that they mentioned those creatures.

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They, but they don't tell us much about them.

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So in for us to try to understand them

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without really over-interpret the evidence,

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I think this kind of anthropological studies

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are really interesting.

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And, this is the first time I must say that, I try

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to do something like that.

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Um, I,

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I think I'm also the first one in general within the

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geological community to try something like that.

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So I, I'll see where, where I can go from there, what,

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what will be the feedback, from other colleagues since,

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the article appeared recently.

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But, until now, I'm a sad the,

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the feedback I had also from, students

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of the ancient world, that was pretty positive.

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I really, hope that,

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this will open, inspire, to another, a new sort

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of approach, the study in general of the,

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what we call the ancient Egyptian ary religion.

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So it is about religious beliefs,

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and worldviews connected to life after death until now.

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Indeed, the way we studied those sources in tombs

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from the tombs basically has been more traditional.

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So using theology, translating text,

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and doing an iconographic studies, of course,

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those approaches are fundamental.

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I'm not really proposing to replace them.

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But, since the,

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the big problem we have in Egyptology when we study Maji

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theology religion is that a lot of time

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we can have a literal translation of, of the text.

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We can look at images and describe the images,

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but we still don't understand

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what they wanted to do with that.

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And so, instead, I hope that by

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using anthropological, theories

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and, methods in the, in the study of those,

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very fascinating sources, we can, maybe achieve,

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new understandings of this,

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ancient culture and, and,

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and their, beliefs in magic.

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Um, magic for the ancient Egyptians

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was part integral part of religion.

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And so all those images,

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all those texts about those creatures, we,

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we call them magical text

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because, they, they were,

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they basically, their aim, the aim

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of those compositions was to make something

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Happen magically.

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So there is a, a lot of performance there.

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That's why it's very important to understand the agency

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of all those figures that are, described, in this,

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in these sources.

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And so I hope there will be more, colleagues,

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going into this direction.

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Uh, on the other end, I am developing, those,

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those methods further, in my, in a few,

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few articles, that are, forthcoming,

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forthcoming, and

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but especially will be, integral part of,

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my, forthcoming monograph on ancient Egyptian,

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the Demonology, which is indeed, entitled,

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not ancient Egyptian demonologist,

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but actually agents of Punishment and Protection.

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And then Demonology in Ancient Egypt is the subtitle,

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because I don't even call them demons anymore.

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Demon is a very loaded term that we use a lot, in,

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in different, of course, religions,

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with different also meanings.

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But, I, I really focus on the agency of those beings

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and what they do and how they relate to the u to humankind.

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So it is all about the worldview audience,

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ancient Egyptians, and the way they present,

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those non-human creatures, most of them animal creatures.

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So that's why I call them animal powers.

00:00 - With this article, I wanted to try something different from, a more traditional Egypt logical study of, what we call monsters or fantastic animals in ancient Egypt. what I did was not just comparing images and text related to these fantastic creatures in

00:23 - between themselves, within the Egyptian, worldview and within the sources we have from ancient Egypt. But I tried, a different approach, more anthropological approach. So what I did was looking at other ways, in which other scholars from other disciplines look at monsters. And so I did that because I, I needed some new inspiration in order to,

00:53 - to study those creatures. I had the feeling that the Egyptian text and images were alluding, alluding to, certain concepts and ideas without explaining them. And so looking at other cultures and the way other scholars, especially anthropologists, look at monsters, in other, cultures, not only ancient, but also modern, helped me to understand, what fantastic animals, or also just what I call animal powers in the ancient

01:27 - Egyptian world, are about monster theory is, very fascinating. I think field, I wouldn't, it is not the discipline. It is really an interdisciplinary field, that, aims at explaining what monsters are in different cultures. And to do so, they use philosophical literary studies, anthropological studies, historicals, art historian historical studies. in particular, I, I was as an Egyptologist, I found very interesting reading, some

02:07 - of the classics of monster theories. in particular, actually an essay by, Jeffrey Cohen, called The Monster Theory, monster Culture seven, seven thesis that's dated to 1996. And, so what Cohen, does is offering seven thesis, in order to understand cultures, cultures through their own monsters. And so in this thesis, in use some, general frames of understanding of monsters,

02:47 - what those monsters tell about the culture. I did not use the seven thesis in, in this article. I started, I hope to do that, to do more in the future, But I try to see if it would work out with the first three thesis that were also, I think from my geological perspective, the, the ones that apply better to, to my own sources. And so, and those three thesis were actually the first one, about the body of monsters. So the thesis is the thesis,

03:22 - the monster's body is a cultural body. the second was about the fact that the monster always escapes. So the monster doesn't really die, is not killed, but very often just escapes and then come back. And this is what we found in the Egyptian sources. And the third is about the monster as a sort of, older, herbinger, her herbinger of, category crisis. And indeed those, animal powers, these fantastic animals, that I seen,

03:57 - represented and mentioned in the ancient Egyptian world, are creatures that, act, function within some liminal spaces in times, in this, in this passage from life on earth to death, and then life in another world. So what they represent is really the liminality, the, the, the crisis, the human crisis between those two dimensions, life and death, and the new life. and so those, I applied in the, in the papers, the, the three thesis and, used,

04:37 - some Egyptian evidence while the, the readers can, look then into the details of them, of those, kind of, sources. So I used both textual and, iconographic. I'm currently writing, a larger monograph on ancient Egyptian demons. And, what is really peculiar of the ancient Egyptian demonology is that most of those creatures are hybrid creatures, or what other colleagues call composite animals.

05:12 - And so I've been asking why animals are so important in, in, in the, the majory of, the, the other words, in strategic, and why many of those animals and composite animals are represented as demons. and so, basically, in my analysis, the key aspect is trying to understand, about the agency of those creatures. So not really try to define what they are or if they are connected to, real historical animal. and this is where crypto cryptozoology,

05:57 - comes, useful because cryptozoology, it's, it's not really a discipline. It's more a subculture, looking at trying to reco, attempting to reconstruct the historical origin of, some animals or monsters. but what I try to, to see is not just historical origin, but also, the agency of those, creatures. And, what I, especially, focus on in this paper is, the fact that, when those animals are represented,

06:33 - without a clear function, so not like other kind of demons who have a specific function, for instance, they're guardians of the gates, or they are punishers, they have clear names, but there are those animal figures that seems not to have a real function, at least in it's not safe. So by looking at, the anthropological theories like perspective is so looking from other perspectives, this is used especially in the, in studies

07:04 - of Amazonian cultures, where not only humans, but also animals, plants, they have, individualities, they have, inner persona as, the Castro one or the authors I mentioned, says. And so, what I, I try to see these animals represented in the Egyptian. Other words as, agents, looking at themselves almost from, a human perspective and seeing the deceased, the passerby in this Egyptian network as a sort of prey.

07:42 - of course, this was the human conception, the, the, the Egyptians that probably they talked, the, the, another word is not an empty place, is plenty of gods. There's plenty of guardian demons, other kind of demons. It's also plenty of animals who are there to almost ch chase us. And so we became, we become the praise and, they are the hunters. So it's a sort of inverted perspective to what we are used to think.

08:13 - Like, we, we are the hunters of the animal. The animal is the prey, but not in this perspective. And so, I, I used also theories of what anthropologists called multiculturalism, multi, culturalism that is about, creatures, that have a different nature, different bodies, but the, they belong to the same culture. And so this will be the case of those animals that are almost humanized, because they belong to the same culture of the Egyptians,

08:48 - of the ancient Egyptians, so to, to their human world. so I, I try to use this perspective, and it kind of helped me to look at these, depictions and also to the, those ancient magical text that we found, attested in papyri, but also on tomb walls and other objects, and that they mentioned those creatures. They, but they don't tell us much about them. So in for us to try to understand them without really over-interpret the evidence,

09:20 - I think this kind of anthropological studies are really interesting. And, this is the first time I must say that, I try to do something like that. I, I think I'm also the first one in general within the geological community to try something like that. So I, I'll see where, where I can go from there, what, what will be the feedback, from other colleagues since, the article appeared recently.

09:51 - But, until now, I'm a sad the, the feedback I had also from, students of the ancient world, that was pretty positive. I really, hope that, this will open, inspire, to another, a new sort of approach, the study in general of the, what we call the ancient Egyptian ary religion. So it is about religious beliefs, and worldviews connected to life after death until now. Indeed, the way we studied those sources in tombs

10:27 - from the tombs basically has been more traditional. So using theology, translating text, and doing an iconographic studies, of course, those approaches are fundamental. I'm not really proposing to replace them. But, since the, the big problem we have in Egyptology when we study Maji theology religion is that a lot of time we can have a literal translation of, of the text. We can look at images and describe the images,

10:58 - but we still don't understand what they wanted to do with that. And so, instead, I hope that by using anthropological, theories and, methods in the, in the study of those, very fascinating sources, we can, maybe achieve, new understandings of this, ancient culture and, and, and their, beliefs in magic. magic for the ancient Egyptians

11:34 - was part integral part of religion. And so all those images, all those texts about those creatures, we, we call them magical text because, they, they were, they basically, their aim, the aim of those compositions was to make something Happen magically. So there is a, a lot of performance there. That's why it's very important to understand the agency

12:01 - of all those figures that are, described, in this, in these sources. And so I hope there will be more, colleagues, going into this direction. on the other end, I am developing, those, those methods further, in my, in a few, few articles, that are, forthcoming, forthcoming, and but especially will be, integral part of, my, forthcoming monograph on ancient Egyptian,

12:36 - the Demonology, which is indeed, entitled, not ancient Egyptian demonologist, but actually agents of Punishment and Protection. And then Demonology in Ancient Egypt is the subtitle, because I don't even call them demons anymore. Demon is a very loaded term that we use a lot, in, in different, of course, religions, with different also meanings. But, I, I really focus on the agency of those beings and what they do and how they relate to the u to humankind.

13:15 - So it is all about the worldview audience, ancient Egyptians, and the way they present, those non-human creatures, most of them animal creatures. So that's why I call them animal powers.

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