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Bottom-up and thought-provoking sites of memory

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Anita Ferrara discusses to what extent sites of memory have engaged society with the stories of resistance and political struggles which have traditionally been kept silent and marginalised by the official memoryscape.

Image courtesy of interviewee. December 12, 2023

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The chapter titled "Bottom Up and Thought-Provoking Sites of Memory," part of the collection "Localizing Memory in Transitional Justice," edited by Mina Rashenberg, Julia Beck, and Stefan Parmentier, examines the ongoing memorialization process in Chile following the Pinochet dictatorship (1973-1990). Despite the passage of time since the dictatorship, the legacy of human rights violations remains a contentious issue in Chile.

The chapter outlines two main memorialization initiatives: state-led and civil society-led. State initiatives often focus on commemorating victims and restoring their dignity through monuments and public spaces, which tend to avoid controversial topics. In contrast, civil society initiatives emphasize direct engagement with the historical sites of violations, often seeking to reclaim and revitalize places associated with torture.

Civil society actors, often survivors or relatives of victims, drive these bottom-up initiatives by actively working to restore sites of memory and engage the public in discussions about the past. They organize events such as guided tours, workshops, and public exhibitions to educate people, especially younger generations, about the political activism linked to the victims and the broader context of social justice.

The chapter notes the interconnectedness of past and present human rights violations, highlighting how contemporary issues echo those of the dictatorship era. This video video continuity serves as motivation for activist efforts to prevent further violations and to foster societal reflection on Chile's historical injustices.

Overall, the chapter emphasizes the evolving nature of memory processes in Chile, advocating for a more nuanced understanding that recognizes the agency of those affected by state violence while addressing contemporary issues in the context of a historical legacy. This video video approach offers insights into the potential for transformative social change and highlights the importance of engaging with varied narratives of the past.

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X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

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This chapter is called Bottom Up

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and Thought-Provoking Sites of Memory.

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And this chapter four of our collection,

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which is actually called Localizing,

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memory in Transitional Justice.

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And, it's edited by Mina Rashenberg, Julia Beck

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and Stefan Parmentier, and published it by Rutledge in 2022.

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The context of this chapter, we have to look

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to understand the context of this chapter.

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We have actually to look at the Chilean memorialization

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process, which starts in the nineties,

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and it's still ongoing,

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and it's a long story, that's been characterized by,

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you know, setbacks, advancements,

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disruptions, contradictions.

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And it's a still very much contested process.

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Despite so many years have passed since the end of the

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17 year Pinoche dictatorship that actually left a legacy

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of tremendous human rights violations, including,

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more than a thousand people and force disappeared.

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Uh, more than 2000 people were judicially killed.

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Uh, all of these, testified by

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and reported by the Chilean Truth

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and Reconciliation Commissions.

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There's been a long story

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of transitional justice mechanism in Chile,

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starting in, in the nineties.

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And the same memorialization process comes from the,

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recommendation of the Chilean Truth Commissions

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that recommended implementations of symbolic reparations

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to restore the good name

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and dignity of those that had been brutally killed,

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by the dictatorship, beyond the First Truth Commission.

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There's a second truth commission in 2003 called the valid

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Commission from the name of its president.

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And it actually, recounts the story of this time torture

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and political imprisonment.

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And it recognizes, a total together with a reopening

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of this commission, more than 40,000 people

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who suffer torture and political imprisonment.

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Imagine, lots of, survivors of torture

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that go physically to testify about the software that

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that torture that they had suffered so many years

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after the violations were actually, being committed.

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And the process of mineralizations tries to, recount all

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of these stories, starting from the early,

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transition years until today.

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But the process of memorization really picked up since 2003

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on the occasion of the, 30th anniversary of the coup.

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Now, this year, it's an important year as well,

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because it's the 50th anniversary of the coup.

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So this chapter is particularly significant in the context

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of, the anniversary of the, kuta in Chile,

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which actually marked a break,

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in the story of this country.

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And this still is actually pretty much dealing

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with the legacy of this massive

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or systematic human rights violations that

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so much destroyed the Chilean political life,

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the social life, the Chilean

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Social texture.

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And in fact, there's still so much contested

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and debated, about it.

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And the chapter is in particularly focused on a kind

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of comparison like it, it demonstrates how the Chilean,

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civil society sectors,

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attempts at memorizations are different, from those

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that are state led.

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So the state led initiatives of memorialization,

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and that's the main point where they actually differ

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from the state led mineralization initiatives

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that have actually more focused in order to understand

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how the memory signs are different from the traditional,

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more state-led initiatives.

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We need to understand, what is the message conveyed

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by the, state official memorialization initiatives,

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which have been more built to, commemorate,

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to remember.

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Uh, and, and, you know, it's, they are a public space.

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They are a public recognition of the violations committed,

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but they're more intended to, restore the good name

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and dignity of the victims rather than, places

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to engage the wider society

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or the places of places that, you know,

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claim places that are controversial.

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The, the places state,

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the state state-led mineralization projects are

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not, controversial.

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They're mainly, focused on, walls of lists of names

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of people that have been killed in n certain particular area

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or plaques or, Toms common graves.

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Um, and they're mainly places of absence, places

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that recount stories of those that have been killed

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by the dictatorship.

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And they've also been, for a long time, they have,

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they are mostly places that belong

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to the directly affected by the violations.

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So to the victims relatives, to the survivors of torture,

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to those that were affiliated with the, with the,

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with the victims by, friendship neighborhood,

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social organizations, activism.

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And so for a long time, the, the,

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the state-led memorization initiatives are,

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can be mostly seen as a private space of grief

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and commemoration and remembrance as law.

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One of the scholars, Ian Scholars

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that has worked on the sites of memory, she talks of this,

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she compares, you know, the, the, the,

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the actual contrasts with the sites of memory.

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The sites of memory are instead, much more,

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active demand of the civil society sectors, the want

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to rescue the places

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where the violations have been committed.

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So the physical places that speak out of the violations

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that have been committed there,

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and their activism to rescue these places is in itself forms

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of resistance and the form of counter narrative,

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because most of the detention, centers were actually,

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erased, were destroyed,

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were lived by private owners.

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Nobody knew where these were.

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And it's thanks to the second truth commission.

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The commission that focus on political prisoners

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and torture that have located,

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has located a thousand hundred 32 detention

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centers all over the country.

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And so it's undeniable,

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and it's a pretty much physical evidence of the places

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where the violations have been committed,

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and the collectives of people, victims, relatives,

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human rights organizations, survivors of torture, people

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that suffer torture and up being in those places have

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actually united formed collectives that have constantly,

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fought for the recuperation, the rescue of these places.

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So the coming to light of these places is in itself a forms

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of, a truth and a forms of evidence

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and a form of counter narrative,

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because it speaks to a truth that everybody knows,

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but it's actually, now, you know, visible to everybody

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that can go and visit those places

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where torture had been committed.

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And what is more interesting about these places is that,

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the victims, relatives

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or the survivors of torture have actually told the stories

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of these places because they are the ones

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that couldn't narrat read how torture was performed here.

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There, you know, the, the, the, the rooms,

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the physical rooms where they were, moved,

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how they suffered torture there.

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And these people are actually leading the management,

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the sign of these places,

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which I think it's very interesting.

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Like, it's very, it's probably one

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of the greatest form of reparation.

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Um, like take the Launders 38, which is one

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of the two places that I particularly, that I,

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that I focus in particularly my chapter.

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She's led the Laund 38.

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It's led by, Erica Ning,

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who was a former torture survivor in Laundries 38.

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Today is the director of the places.

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And the husband has been, for, has been disappeared

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and being detained and tortured in that place as well.

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So it's stories of people that from,

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being victims of human rights relations become actors

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in the new political landscape.

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Uh, and I think this is quite, an important aspect

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of the activism of these places of memory.

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And secondly, they do engage in contrast

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to the earlier mineralization initiatives,

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the wider society, which means that,

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they all, they all organize.

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Now I talk it of these two, launders 38

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and Jose Domingo Canyons,

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but there are other places that have been rescued

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and other collectives actually organize themselves, deciding

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what to do from these places, what type

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of memories they want to pass to the wider society.

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And they do organize, guided tours

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or dialogue tours, as they call it.

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Uh, they do organize debates, workshops, book launches,

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public exhibitions.

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There's a lot going on in these places

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that invites into a reflection about what happened.

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So there's a little bit more of discussion,

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rather than imposing a one single narrative of victimhood,

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these places talk a lot about agency, about the fact

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that the victims were not only victims,

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but they were, political activists.

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They were revolutionaries, they were fighting

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for a different world.

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They were fighting for a different economic

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and social conception of the society.

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And those are the stories that this, civil society,

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that's why I call them a bottom up,

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because they're mainly a bottom up stories.

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The, the government

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and the Chilean state has always given,

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a lot an emphasis on victimhood.

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And, but the, all the people that were killed were actually,

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trade unionists.

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They were student leaders.

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They were part of the student movements.

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They were, you know, they, they were part of collectives

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and organizations that were actually active in pursuing a

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certain political project.

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And this is what this place is.

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The one to, you know, want to emphasize.

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This is precisely the aspects

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that will connect to the last point.

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Uh, the fact that I've asked, the directors

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of this two specific places, as I said,

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there are other places that are also doing

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wonderful activities.

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I just focus on these two because I chose 2K studies.

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Um, and because they're among the most famous ones

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and ones that receive more, you know,

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that have more sustainability in terms of finding

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and resources so that I can become longer term projects.

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The, for example, the,

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and both places have been actively involved in,

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in denouncing and,

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contrasting contemporary human rights violations, such as,

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for example, the, police brutality during demonstration.

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So they're constantly denouncing, the existence

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of torture in democracy.

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Uh, they stepped up very actively in the latest social

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outbreak of 2019.

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Now, this, I have to say

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that this chapter was anticipating the active role

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that the member sites have actually taken in,

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social outbreak.

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Where, which started when, when this finished,

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when this chapter was finished, the, the, the,

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the demonstrations were currently were happening.

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And I could see that actually laundry 30 for number 38,

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for example, came forward to physically,

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offer first aid to the wounded

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and injured during the demonstrations,

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or they were collecting evidence

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and they were filing complaints.

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Um, and, you know, they're still in charge.

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The lawyers of Laund 38,

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or the lawyers working, with Laund 38 are filing cases,

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against, the violence perpetrated by the carros,

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the, which is the, the police, which would be the,

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the civilian police in Chile,

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and the militaries, which were called actually

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to intervene in the demonstration demonstrations.

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That it's, it's, it's very much, proven by,

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international organizations

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and, Inter-American Commission of Human Rights,

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that actually the human rights,

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systematic human rights relations have been perpetrated

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during the demonstration.

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Um, and,

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and Launders 38 came forward as well as Jose Domingo,

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they had, human rights observers,

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going into the streets to observe effect, like the type

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of violations that were suffering, the people,

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the demonstrators, the young students,

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or it, this is, is mainly a demonstration of young students.

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Um, that happened in 2019. It was only stopped.

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Uh, it went along for a long time,

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and it was only stopped by Covid, basically.

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Um, and the country is still also dealing

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with this new violations, which were seen

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by the two memory sites as a continuation,

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like why the memory sites do actually participate in

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contemporary human rights relations,

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because they see those as a

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continuation of the legacy of the past.

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And so they think that the best way to repair the people

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that have been killed in those places

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or torture in those places is to actually participate

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and have an active role in the society,

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in the current society,

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and in the stopping contemporary human rights violations.

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Because this is what, this is what the, you know,

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their relatives, their friends, their neighbor were fighting

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for while they were killed in those places.

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So they have transposed the activists

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of those from the past in the present.

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So it's remembering the past,

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but continuing to have an active role in the present.

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And for them, this is the best way to, actually deal

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with the past and to remember these people, not just

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to commemorate the absence of those people

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or the suffering of the torture of these people,

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but, you know, to continue the agency

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and the thing they think.

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And this is what people that I have interviewed working in

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this place have mostly told me about the significance

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of their, which I call political activism.

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Well, I think that this, latest, this Chilean,

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latest, memorization process of political activism

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of the sites of memory has actually implications

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for the memory field in general,

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because it tells us a story of, you know, a lifts,

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and artificial barrier between the past and the present.

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So it actually tells us that just no, we cannot look at,

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the past in, in silos.

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And, you know, and, and mark that, you know,

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and with, with mechanism, we try to mark a break between,

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you know, the past and the future,

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or the present and the future.

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But it's impossible to do that

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because there is a line of continuation

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of certain type of violations.

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It takes a long time, it takes a long time

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to heal these wounds.

14:29.905 --> 14:32.845
And, and, and actually the process of memory evolve.

14:33.225 --> 14:35.605
So, they evolve with the political context.

14:35.715 --> 14:39.685
They evolve according to what the society is actually ready

14:39.825 --> 14:41.325
to engage with or not.

14:41.625 --> 14:43.765
So this is more possible today, obviously

14:43.765 --> 14:44.965
because many years have passed,

14:45.025 --> 14:47.645
the political context has changed, and, you know,

14:47.905 --> 14:51.045
and the governments are not, are not interfering

14:51.165 --> 14:53.005
with the activities of this memory side.

14:53.025 --> 14:56.885
So there is more of, a possibility

14:57.065 --> 14:59.845
to engage the society on multiple versions of the past.

14:59.865 --> 15:03.285
It was probably not possible 20 years ago or 30 years ago.

15:03.505 --> 15:06.565
And so there are two messages that I think are two

15:06.665 --> 15:11.165
or three main messages taken from this, with the work

15:11.185 --> 15:13.725
of activism that the ma society in Chile are pursuing.

15:13.775 --> 15:15.885
First of all, there's a continuation

15:15.885 --> 15:17.325
between the past and the present.

15:18.065 --> 15:22.325
Um, secondly, it is possible to engage, society

15:22.905 --> 15:24.965
in, a wider debate about the past.

15:25.145 --> 15:27.085
The past is not only a matter between victims

15:27.185 --> 15:29.725
and perpetrators, it's associated problems

15:29.985 --> 15:31.045
and memorialization.

15:31.225 --> 15:35.845
And this, this ways of doing memory are actually,

15:36.115 --> 15:40.685
forcing the society in a way also to look, at,

15:40.785 --> 15:43.405
at the past in a way, especially for younger generations

15:43.405 --> 15:45.005
that have not lived through this.

15:45.465 --> 15:48.085
So they might, you know, read the stories

15:48.745 --> 15:51.605
in the history curriculum if they're lucky.

15:51.755 --> 15:54.485
Like it doesn't need, it's not necessarily,

15:54.665 --> 15:57.565
but it's, it's good if you, they also visit,

15:57.665 --> 16:00.645
and in fact, this place offers lots of, guided tour

16:00.645 --> 16:02.565
to schools, colleges,

16:03.105 --> 16:06.605
and, you know, so that they can have more of a, a,

16:06.725 --> 16:08.645
a an understanding of their past.

16:08.705 --> 16:11.485
And thirdly, and lastly, I think that in so doing,

16:11.825 --> 16:13.965
we cannot see today the impact of this.

16:14.505 --> 16:16.685
Uh, but I think that, you know, they might contribute,

16:16.685 --> 16:20.605
they might have a transformative, power in a way,

16:20.945 --> 16:22.165
for the future generations.

16:22.185 --> 16:24.445
Now, we cannot see it, it now,

16:24.785 --> 16:27.125
but we are starting, I'm starting to see the first studies

16:27.225 --> 16:29.695
of the impact on the visitors, how,

16:29.755 --> 16:30.895
you know, how they are left.

16:31.115 --> 16:32.735
And this is another innovative aspect

16:32.735 --> 16:34.335
of the GDM study in this regard.

16:34.795 --> 16:37.975
Uh, like, you know, how they are being left with, with

16:37.975 --> 16:39.535
what message, what happens to,

16:39.635 --> 16:42.495
and the new studies coming forward to actually

16:43.095 --> 16:45.655
investigate the impact of the visit of the visits

16:45.915 --> 16:47.735
or of the activities performed

16:47.795 --> 16:50.295
by these memory sites on the people that actually engaged

16:50.355 --> 16:52.415
and participate in those ones.

16:52.415 --> 16:55.375
So I think these are the most important points, from

16:55.375 --> 16:57.615
where to lead for future research in this field.

00:00 - This chapter is called Bottom Up and Thought-Provoking Sites of Memory. And this chapter four of our collection, which is actually called Localizing, memory in Transitional Justice. And, it's edited by Mina Rashenberg, Julia Beck

00:15 - and Stefan Parmentier, and published it by Rutledge in 2022. The context of this chapter, we have to look to understand the context of this chapter. We have actually to look at the Chilean memorialization process, which starts in the nineties, and it's still ongoing, and it's a long story, that's been characterized by, you know, setbacks, advancements, disruptions, contradictions. And it's a still very much contested process.

00:44 - Despite so many years have passed since the end of the 17 year Pinoche dictatorship that actually left a legacy of tremendous human rights violations, including, more than a thousand people and force disappeared. more than 2000 people were judicially killed. all of these, testified by and reported by the Chilean Truth and Reconciliation Commissions. There's been a long story of transitional justice mechanism in Chile,

01:14 - starting in, in the nineties. And the same memorialization process comes from the, recommendation of the Chilean Truth Commissions that recommended implementations of symbolic reparations to restore the good name and dignity of those that had been brutally killed, by the dictatorship, beyond the First Truth Commission. There's a second truth commission in 2003 called the valid Commission from the name of its president. And it actually, recounts the story of this time torture

01:50 - and political imprisonment. And it recognizes, a total together with a reopening of this commission, more than 40,000 people who suffer torture and political imprisonment. Imagine, lots of, survivors of torture that go physically to testify about the software that that torture that they had suffered so many years after the violations were actually, being committed. And the process of mineralizations tries to, recount all of these stories, starting from the early,

02:21 - transition years until today. But the process of memorization really picked up since 2003 on the occasion of the, 30th anniversary of the coup. Now, this year, it's an important year as well, because it's the 50th anniversary of the coup. So this chapter is particularly significant in the context of, the anniversary of the, kuta in Chile, which actually marked a break, in the story of this country. And this still is actually pretty much dealing

02:50 - with the legacy of this massive or systematic human rights violations that so much destroyed the Chilean political life, the social life, the Chilean Social texture. And in fact, there's still so much contested and debated, about it. And the chapter is in particularly focused on a kind of comparison like it, it demonstrates how the Chilean, civil society sectors,

03:13 - attempts at memorizations are different, from those that are state led. So the state led initiatives of memorialization, and that's the main point where they actually differ from the state led mineralization initiatives that have actually more focused in order to understand how the memory signs are different from the traditional, more state-led initiatives. We need to understand, what is the message conveyed by the, state official memorialization initiatives,

03:46 - which have been more built to, commemorate, to remember. and, and, you know, it's, they are a public space. They are a public recognition of the violations committed, but they're more intended to, restore the good name and dignity of the victims rather than, places to engage the wider society or the places of places that, you know, claim places that are controversial. The, the places state,

04:12 - the state state-led mineralization projects are not, controversial. They're mainly, focused on, walls of lists of names of people that have been killed in n certain particular area or plaques or, Toms common graves. and they're mainly places of absence, places that recount stories of those that have been killed by the dictatorship. And they've also been, for a long time, they have, they are mostly places that belong

04:42 - to the directly affected by the violations. So to the victims relatives, to the survivors of torture, to those that were affiliated with the, with the, with the victims by, friendship neighborhood, social organizations, activism. And so for a long time, the, the, the state-led memorization initiatives are, can be mostly seen as a private space of grief and commemoration and remembrance as law. One of the scholars, Ian Scholars

05:10 - that has worked on the sites of memory, she talks of this, she compares, you know, the, the, the, the actual contrasts with the sites of memory. The sites of memory are instead, much more, active demand of the civil society sectors, the want to rescue the places where the violations have been committed. So the physical places that speak out of the violations that have been committed there, and their activism to rescue these places is in itself forms

05:41 - of resistance and the form of counter narrative, because most of the detention, centers were actually, erased, were destroyed, were lived by private owners. Nobody knew where these were. And it's thanks to the second truth commission. The commission that focus on political prisoners and torture that have located, has located a thousand hundred 32 detention centers all over the country.

06:09 - And so it's undeniable, and it's a pretty much physical evidence of the places where the violations have been committed, and the collectives of people, victims, relatives, human rights organizations, survivors of torture, people that suffer torture and up being in those places have actually united formed collectives that have constantly, fought for the recuperation, the rescue of these places. So the coming to light of these places is in itself a forms of, a truth and a forms of evidence

06:46 - and a form of counter narrative, because it speaks to a truth that everybody knows, but it's actually, now, you know, visible to everybody that can go and visit those places where torture had been committed. And what is more interesting about these places is that, the victims, relatives or the survivors of torture have actually told the stories of these places because they are the ones that couldn't narrat read how torture was performed here.

07:13 - There, you know, the, the, the, the rooms, the physical rooms where they were, moved, how they suffered torture there. And these people are actually leading the management, the sign of these places, which I think it's very interesting. Like, it's very, it's probably one of the greatest form of reparation. like take the Launders 38, which is one of the two places that I particularly, that I,

07:39 - that I focus in particularly my chapter. She's led the Laund 38. It's led by, Erica Ning, who was a former torture survivor in Laundries 38. Today is the director of the places. And the husband has been, for, has been disappeared and being detained and tortured in that place as well. So it's stories of people that from, being victims of human rights relations become actors in the new political landscape.

08:09 - and I think this is quite, an important aspect of the activism of these places of memory. And secondly, they do engage in contrast to the earlier mineralization initiatives, the wider society, which means that, they all, they all organize. Now I talk it of these two, launders 38 and Jose Domingo Canyons, but there are other places that have been rescued and other collectives actually organize themselves, deciding

08:38 - what to do from these places, what type of memories they want to pass to the wider society. And they do organize, guided tours or dialogue tours, as they call it. they do organize debates, workshops, book launches, public exhibitions. There's a lot going on in these places that invites into a reflection about what happened. So there's a little bit more of discussion, rather than imposing a one single narrative of victimhood,

09:06 - these places talk a lot about agency, about the fact that the victims were not only victims, but they were, political activists. They were revolutionaries, they were fighting for a different world. They were fighting for a different economic and social conception of the society. And those are the stories that this, civil society, that's why I call them a bottom up, because they're mainly a bottom up stories.

09:32 - The, the government and the Chilean state has always given, a lot an emphasis on victimhood. And, but the, all the people that were killed were actually, trade unionists. They were student leaders. They were part of the student movements. They were, you know, they, they were part of collectives and organizations that were actually active in pursuing a certain political project.

09:55 - And this is what this place is. The one to, you know, want to emphasize. This is precisely the aspects that will connect to the last point. the fact that I've asked, the directors of this two specific places, as I said, there are other places that are also doing wonderful activities. I just focus on these two because I chose 2K studies. and because they're among the most famous ones

10:20 - and ones that receive more, you know, that have more sustainability in terms of finding and resources so that I can become longer term projects. The, for example, the, and both places have been actively involved in, in denouncing and, contrasting contemporary human rights violations, such as, for example, the, police brutality during demonstration. So they're constantly denouncing, the existence of torture in democracy.

10:49 - they stepped up very actively in the latest social outbreak of 2019. Now, this, I have to say that this chapter was anticipating the active role that the member sites have actually taken in, social outbreak. Where, which started when, when this finished, when this chapter was finished, the, the, the, the demonstrations were currently were happening. And I could see that actually laundry 30 for number 38,

11:14 - for example, came forward to physically, offer first aid to the wounded and injured during the demonstrations, or they were collecting evidence and they were filing complaints. and, you know, they're still in charge. The lawyers of Laund 38, or the lawyers working, with Laund 38 are filing cases, against, the violence perpetrated by the carros, the, which is the, the police, which would be the,

11:42 - the civilian police in Chile, and the militaries, which were called actually to intervene in the demonstration demonstrations. That it's, it's, it's very much, proven by, international organizations and, Inter-American Commission of Human Rights, that actually the human rights, systematic human rights relations have been perpetrated during the demonstration. and,

12:02 - and Launders 38 came forward as well as Jose Domingo, they had, human rights observers, going into the streets to observe effect, like the type of violations that were suffering, the people, the demonstrators, the young students, or it, this is, is mainly a demonstration of young students. that happened in 2019. It was only stopped. it went along for a long time, and it was only stopped by Covid, basically. and the country is still also dealing

12:33 - with this new violations, which were seen by the two memory sites as a continuation, like why the memory sites do actually participate in contemporary human rights relations, because they see those as a continuation of the legacy of the past. And so they think that the best way to repair the people that have been killed in those places or torture in those places is to actually participate and have an active role in the society,

12:59 - in the current society, and in the stopping contemporary human rights violations. Because this is what, this is what the, you know, their relatives, their friends, their neighbor were fighting for while they were killed in those places. So they have transposed the activists of those from the past in the present. So it's remembering the past, but continuing to have an active role in the present. And for them, this is the best way to, actually deal

13:26 - with the past and to remember these people, not just to commemorate the absence of those people or the suffering of the torture of these people, but, you know, to continue the agency and the thing they think. And this is what people that I have interviewed working in this place have mostly told me about the significance of their, which I call political activism. Well, I think that this, latest, this Chilean, latest, memorization process of political activism

13:53 - of the sites of memory has actually implications for the memory field in general, because it tells us a story of, you know, a lifts, and artificial barrier between the past and the present. So it actually tells us that just no, we cannot look at, the past in, in silos. And, you know, and, and mark that, you know, and with, with mechanism, we try to mark a break between, you know, the past and the future, or the present and the future.

14:19 - But it's impossible to do that because there is a line of continuation of certain type of violations. It takes a long time, it takes a long time to heal these wounds. And, and, and actually the process of memory evolve. So, they evolve with the political context. They evolve according to what the society is actually ready to engage with or not. So this is more possible today, obviously

14:43 - because many years have passed, the political context has changed, and, you know, and the governments are not, are not interfering with the activities of this memory side. So there is more of, a possibility to engage the society on multiple versions of the past. It was probably not possible 20 years ago or 30 years ago. And so there are two messages that I think are two or three main messages taken from this, with the work of activism that the ma society in Chile are pursuing.

15:13 - First of all, there's a continuation between the past and the present. secondly, it is possible to engage, society in, a wider debate about the past. The past is not only a matter between victims and perpetrators, it's associated problems and memorialization. And this, this ways of doing memory are actually, forcing the society in a way also to look, at, at the past in a way, especially for younger generations

15:43 - that have not lived through this. So they might, you know, read the stories in the history curriculum if they're lucky. Like it doesn't need, it's not necessarily, but it's, it's good if you, they also visit, and in fact, this place offers lots of, guided tour to schools, colleges, and, you know, so that they can have more of a, a, a an understanding of their past. And thirdly, and lastly, I think that in so doing,

16:11 - we cannot see today the impact of this. but I think that, you know, they might contribute, they might have a transformative, power in a way, for the future generations. Now, we cannot see it, it now, but we are starting, I'm starting to see the first studies of the impact on the visitors, how, you know, how they are left. And this is another innovative aspect of the GDM study in this regard.

16:34 - like, you know, how they are being left with, with what message, what happens to, and the new studies coming forward to actually investigate the impact of the visit of the visits or of the activities performed by these memory sites on the people that actually engaged and participate in those ones. So I think these are the most important points, from where to lead for future research in this field.

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