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Liz Brown explains how to build an interdisciplinary course about global problem-solving that is anchored in business law yet draws substantially from many other fields.

Image courtesy of interviewee. March 18, 2024

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This video video discusses the importance of integrating legal studies into business education, emphasizing that law serves as the rules by which businesses operate. Understanding legal principles offers strategic advantages, helping business leaders spot and avoid potential issues throughout all stages of business management.

The author introduces a unique course called "Heroes and CEOs," created after observing a lack of interdisciplinary teaching at Bentley University. The course aims to break down silos in business education by allowing students to explore and solve complex problems while learning from experts across various fields. Structured in four parts, the course tackles topics such as microplastics in the ocean, climate justice, and gender equity, combining insights from marketing, biology, and environmental law.

Students also engage in independent projects on issues they care about, fostering enthusiasm and community. The course not only benefits students by equipping them with valuable problem-solving skills but also provides a collaborative experience for faculty across departments. The positive outcomes from the course have led to greater interest in law and local governance among students.

This video video concludes with a call for more interdisciplinary courses like "Heroes and CEOs," highlighting their flexibility and potential to enhance student education by focusing on complex, real-world problems. More collaborative and cross-disciplinary learning can fulfill the idealism students bring to their education while preparing them for future challenges.

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X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

00:00.605 --> 00:01.775
It's incredibly important

00:01.835 --> 00:04.695
to integrate legal studies in management

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and in a broad based business education,

00:07.325 --> 00:10.975
because if you think of business as a sport,

00:11.715 --> 00:13.535
law is the rules of that sport.

00:14.195 --> 00:16.655
So not only is it important to know how

00:16.835 --> 00:19.895
to conduct your business well

00:19.915 --> 00:21.655
and within the guidelines of the rules,

00:22.435 --> 00:24.295
but understanding law

00:24.395 --> 00:27.215
as a business leader gives you strategic advantages

00:27.285 --> 00:30.255
because you can spot issues, potential problems

00:30.275 --> 00:32.775
and avoid them if you know a little bit about the

00:32.795 --> 00:34.255
law as you're going along.

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And that applies from the time you start a business

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to your initial stages of forming it, to managing it,

00:41.715 --> 00:44.735
to really every stage of business leadership

00:46.305 --> 00:49.825
businesses benefit from a little fluency in law.

00:50.755 --> 00:54.575
Heroes and CEOs is a really unusual course,

00:55.115 --> 00:56.375
and I created it

00:56.375 --> 01:00.455
because I've been teaching at a business university at

01:00.455 --> 01:02.935
Bentley University for over a decade.

01:03.595 --> 01:07.455
And I saw that our students were learning important skills

01:07.725 --> 01:09.535
like law and management,

01:09.755 --> 01:12.135
but they were learning them in kind of a siloed way.

01:13.355 --> 01:17.335
And there was an opportunity, I thought, for our students

01:17.515 --> 01:20.815
to understand how each of the things that they're studying,

01:21.045 --> 01:22.855
each of the disciplines that they're studying

01:23.465 --> 01:24.815
could be brought together

01:25.595 --> 01:28.175
to provide a more effective education.

01:28.965 --> 01:31.425
So we have the building blocks in any university

01:32.005 --> 01:34.345
of all the skills that business leaders need,

01:35.125 --> 01:37.905
but how often do we actually give our students the

01:37.905 --> 01:41.745
opportunity to bring those together to solve problems,

01:41.745 --> 01:45.265
important problems while they're still undergraduates?

01:46.005 --> 01:48.025
It seems to me like we almost never do that.

01:48.565 --> 01:49.785
And so Heroes

01:49.785 --> 01:54.505
and CEOs is a course in which the students can

01:55.075 --> 01:59.145
learn from experts in 14 different fields instead of one,

02:00.185 --> 02:02.285
but in a really workable context

02:02.555 --> 02:05.685
that helps the students understand what's the practical

02:05.735 --> 02:08.245
value of each of these different fields that I'm studying

02:08.625 --> 02:12.165
and how might I be able to bring them together in my career.

02:12.825 --> 02:14.285
The course structure of Heroes

02:14.285 --> 02:17.685
and CEOs, is as unusual as its nature.

02:18.505 --> 02:20.725
We focus on complex problem solving.

02:21.305 --> 02:25.805
And so the way the course does that is in four parts.

02:26.415 --> 02:29.205
First, we, the students start with an introduction to

02:29.755 --> 02:33.285
what is complex problem solving, how do government

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and businesses work together, what are some

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of the problems we should solve?

02:37.905 --> 02:41.325
And we look at the UN sustainable development goals

02:41.705 --> 02:44.445
and we start out with a general sort of overview

02:44.705 --> 02:46.325
of problem solving to begin with.

02:47.105 --> 02:49.085
And then that's the, that's the first part.

02:49.425 --> 02:52.645
And then we move into, the second, third,

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and fourth parts which focus on discreet

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really difficult problems or wicked

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Problems as we call them.

03:00.585 --> 03:02.885
And anytime this course is run,

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those specific problems could change.

03:06.075 --> 03:09.175
For the first iteration of our course, I chose

03:10.125 --> 03:12.355
three problems that were,

03:12.355 --> 03:14.555
microplastics in the ocean was one of them.

03:15.175 --> 03:19.755
And then, climate justice, how do we not

03:20.345 --> 03:22.875
deal with climate change in a broad sense?

03:22.975 --> 03:24.835
But the question of, of equity

03:24.855 --> 03:28.715
and who's affected by climate change and then gender equity.

03:29.455 --> 03:33.275
So those are our three topics, our three wicked problems

03:33.425 --> 03:37.175
that we focused on For each of those problems,

03:38.595 --> 03:41.085
microplastics, climate justice, gender equity,

03:41.965 --> 03:44.965
I brought in experts from three different fields

03:45.545 --> 03:46.565
to talk to the students.

03:47.425 --> 03:50.765
And at the end of each of those sections at the end

03:50.765 --> 03:53.885
of the microplastics in the ocean section, for example,

03:54.485 --> 03:56.525
students wrote papers describing

03:56.585 --> 03:59.765
how those three different fields might work together

03:59.905 --> 04:01.405
to provide a complimentary

04:01.545 --> 04:03.485
and better creative solution

04:03.785 --> 04:06.085
to the problem than any one field alone.

04:08.325 --> 04:10.145
At the same time, the students

04:10.245 --> 04:12.745
who are throughout the course working on a problem

04:12.745 --> 04:15.065
of their own, a problem that mattered to them,

04:15.705 --> 04:16.945
I had chosen three problems.

04:17.265 --> 04:19.265
I wanted my students to feel invested as well.

04:19.765 --> 04:20.825
So I asked them

04:20.965 --> 04:24.225
to have their own independent throughline project

04:24.895 --> 04:26.545
that could be anything that they wanted.

04:27.095 --> 04:30.705
Some students chose fast fashion, some students chose,

04:32.595 --> 04:34.355
structural problems in their hometown.

04:34.855 --> 04:35.995
It just had to be something

04:35.995 --> 04:37.675
that the student really cared about.

04:39.515 --> 04:42.895
And so, for example, if I, if it might help

04:42.895 --> 04:45.735
to give an example of the, disciplines

04:45.735 --> 04:46.735
that work together.

04:47.595 --> 04:52.005
So in the microplastic section, for example, I had,

04:52.425 --> 04:56.445
I brought in someone from marketing who could talk about

04:56.825 --> 04:59.805
how products are, are marketed

04:59.905 --> 05:03.365
and how, why it's important to design sustainable packaging

05:03.365 --> 05:04.765
and what are the obstacles to doing

05:04.765 --> 05:06.525
that from a marketing perspective.

05:07.205 --> 05:10.285
I also brought in a biologist, a marine biologist,

05:10.465 --> 05:13.245
to talk about how plastics function in the ocean

05:13.985 --> 05:15.365
and how they affect wildlife.

05:16.075 --> 05:19.815
And then as our third discipline, I brought in somebody

05:19.835 --> 05:22.455
who is knowledgeable about environmental law,

05:22.555 --> 05:25.815
and we talked about how regulation might provide an

05:25.815 --> 05:27.175
important part of the answer.

05:27.875 --> 05:31.405
So the underlying concept of heroes

05:31.445 --> 05:32.645
and CEOs is

05:32.645 --> 05:37.125
that no single discipline has a monopoly on the value in

05:37.125 --> 05:38.165
complex problem solving.

05:38.785 --> 05:42.205
And to be a really effective problem solver, leaders need

05:42.205 --> 05:44.045
to be able to use disciplines together.

05:45.345 --> 05:49.805
Heroes and CEOs is a, is a, an exercise in doing just that.

05:50.785 --> 05:54.885
The minute you graduate with a degree, you are

05:55.485 --> 05:56.845
released from the structure

05:57.025 --> 06:00.965
Of English courses and government courses and history

06:00.965 --> 06:02.005
and marketing and finance

06:02.185 --> 06:03.485
and all the different disciplines

06:03.485 --> 06:05.085
that universities are built around.

06:05.975 --> 06:07.395
You just get released into the world

06:07.985 --> 06:09.955
with its complex problems

06:10.015 --> 06:11.915
and its lack of disciplinary labels.

06:12.575 --> 06:16.905
So in order to take on problems effectively, it's important

06:16.925 --> 06:20.225
to be able to think beyond those course labels,

06:20.325 --> 06:21.985
beyond those department names

06:22.525 --> 06:24.985
and to think about what are the partnerships,

06:25.095 --> 06:28.025
what are the synergies, what are the differences between

06:28.485 --> 06:31.665
how different experts tend to think of problems.

06:33.065 --> 06:34.225
A really effective leader,

06:34.405 --> 06:37.625
the most effective leaders will be able to understand

06:38.085 --> 06:39.105
how a broad range

06:39.105 --> 06:41.945
of disciplines could be brought together most effectively.

06:42.525 --> 06:45.145
So wicked problem solving courses are important

06:45.145 --> 06:47.025
because they provide training

06:47.845 --> 06:50.385
to take on the truly important work

06:50.495 --> 06:52.825
that business leaders need to do in the world,

06:53.645 --> 06:55.585
not just in leading their businesses,

06:56.085 --> 06:59.385
but in promoting social change and promoting local change

06:59.445 --> 07:02.265
and dealing with bigger problems in.

07:02.285 --> 07:04.185
And whether that's something that they do as part

07:04.185 --> 07:05.865
of their professional lives or whether

07:05.865 --> 07:07.985
that's something they do in their personal lives as part

07:07.985 --> 07:11.345
of the community, those are really important skills to have.

07:12.855 --> 07:15.155
So problem solving courses

07:15.155 --> 07:17.075
that bring together multiple disciplines

07:17.625 --> 07:20.115
provide an excellent training ground for

07:20.115 --> 07:22.835
what happens the minute after our students leave our campus.

07:23.765 --> 07:26.025
The impact of these courses has been tremendous.

07:26.445 --> 07:30.705
Uh, starting from the students' experience in the courses,

07:31.445 --> 07:33.305
my students first took Heroes

07:33.305 --> 07:36.865
and CEOs during the pandemic when it was really hard

07:36.865 --> 07:39.465
to get students excited about doing an online course.

07:40.385 --> 07:44.265
I have never had more enthusiastic students than we did

07:44.265 --> 07:45.745
during Heroes and CEOs

07:45.745 --> 07:48.145
because I think students are really hungry

07:48.525 --> 07:52.105
to make those connections and to meet more faculty.

07:52.695 --> 07:55.825
When I was bringing in a different faculty member every week

07:55.885 --> 07:58.265
to talk about a different discipline, that meant

07:58.265 --> 08:01.385
that my students were getting to, to form relationships

08:01.495 --> 08:03.345
with a broader range of faculty.

08:03.815 --> 08:05.305
They were getting introduced to fields

08:05.305 --> 08:07.065
of study they might never have encountered

08:07.065 --> 08:10.025
because they maybe didn't wanna invest a whole semester

08:10.605 --> 08:14.345
in a management class or in a sociology class.

08:14.965 --> 08:18.265
But here in this course, they got a little taster,

08:18.305 --> 08:20.705
a little sample of many different disciplines,

08:21.405 --> 08:22.665
but in the context of something

08:22.665 --> 08:24.985
that was gonna be really beneficial to them in the end.

08:26.045 --> 08:29.265
So for the students, they formed a tight community.

08:29.575 --> 08:31.825
They were enthusiastic about the skills

08:31.825 --> 08:32.985
they developed in the course.

08:33.485 --> 08:36.105
It felt useful to them in a way

08:36.105 --> 08:38.305
that students are really hungry for,

08:39.085 --> 08:42.065
and it gave them a way to act on their idealism.

08:42.645 --> 08:45.425
And I think it's really important as university faculty,

08:46.095 --> 08:50.345
that we do what we can to preserve the save the world

08:50.915 --> 08:54.865
ethos that so many of our students come into our, our

08:55.085 --> 08:56.165
Institutions with.

08:56.465 --> 08:58.165
And so often it's kind of dimmed

08:58.185 --> 08:59.365
by the time they're leaving.

09:00.145 --> 09:03.245
So courses like this help not only preserve,

09:03.825 --> 09:08.285
but make practical that idealism, you know, they help put

09:08.285 --> 09:10.525
that, those noble goals into practice.

09:10.645 --> 09:12.045
I think our students were excited about that.

09:13.665 --> 09:15.445
It was also beneficial for the faculty

09:15.955 --> 09:19.485
because I went into this course thinking, I'm gonna have

09:19.485 --> 09:22.085
to ask for favors from all of my colleagues

09:22.185 --> 09:23.365
to come in and teach this course.

09:23.425 --> 09:24.565
No one's gonna wanna do it.

09:25.145 --> 09:28.485
But without exception, all of the faculty members

09:28.485 --> 09:30.325
that I asked were excited to do it

09:30.715 --> 09:35.205
because they got to work across department lines with people

09:35.275 --> 09:36.845
that they really enjoyed meeting,

09:37.225 --> 09:40.805
but wouldn't necessarily meet in the, the silos

09:40.805 --> 09:42.325
or the sort of the rigid structures,

09:42.385 --> 09:44.485
the departmental meetings that we tend to have

09:45.035 --> 09:46.605
that keep us separate from each other.

09:47.535 --> 09:50.275
So it was a great, professional experience

09:50.335 --> 09:51.995
for the faculty as well.

09:52.695 --> 09:53.955
And we were all really proud

09:53.955 --> 09:56.475
that we were helping our students build these important

09:56.475 --> 09:59.705
skills in terms of what's gonna happen in the future

09:59.885 --> 10:01.025
for the students in the course.

10:01.515 --> 10:02.545
We're still seeing that.

10:03.055 --> 10:05.305
I've had some of the students from Heroes

10:05.305 --> 10:07.865
and CEOs first round decide that they wanted

10:07.885 --> 10:09.345
to apply to law school.

10:09.935 --> 10:12.905
I've had some students from that first round decide

10:12.905 --> 10:15.385
that they'd like to get more involved in local government.

10:15.885 --> 10:20.105
So these are great things and I think as the years go on

10:20.125 --> 10:21.265
and we repeat heroes

10:21.265 --> 10:25.585
and CEOs, we're gonna see a greater range of positive,

10:25.865 --> 10:27.385
outcomes as a result of courses like this.

10:28.245 --> 10:30.625
The conclusions from this work are that

10:31.155 --> 10:33.905
there should be more courses like Heroes and CEOs

10:34.005 --> 10:38.705
and there can be there, it, there is a, a structure in place

10:38.775 --> 10:41.145
that can be adjusted any number of ways.

10:42.055 --> 10:45.665
I've set up a course shell that has

10:46.235 --> 10:48.105
three problem solving components.

10:48.395 --> 10:49.985
There could be two, there could be four.

10:51.315 --> 10:52.995
I look forward to seeing

10:53.175 --> 10:55.675
how other people are using this kind of structure

10:55.815 --> 10:57.675
and running with it in other institutions.

10:58.185 --> 11:01.395
What disciplines you invite to the party totally depends on

11:01.465 --> 11:03.555
what disciplines you have at your institution

11:03.575 --> 11:06.595
and that you wanna highlight what problems you wanna solve.

11:07.225 --> 11:10.635
That depends in part on, again, who you wanna invite

11:10.635 --> 11:12.755
to the party, what disciplines you wanna include.

11:13.255 --> 11:15.555
But there's a tremendous range of flexibility.

11:16.415 --> 11:21.075
So as long as we can get past the administrative hassle

11:21.895 --> 11:24.235
of, you know, well, you're not gonna get credit

11:24.255 --> 11:27.595
for teaching this course and think instead about the

11:27.715 --> 11:29.555
overwhelming benefits to the student.

11:29.655 --> 11:31.955
If we run more multiple multidisciplinary,

11:32.435 --> 11:34.115
wicked problem solving courses like this,

11:34.955 --> 11:36.875
I think there's infinite potential

11:37.135 --> 11:41.195
to have many more interdisciplinary courses like this

11:41.225 --> 11:43.835
that are fun and beneficial.

11:44.945 --> 11:45.925
And who doesn't want that.

00:00 - It's incredibly important to integrate legal studies in management and in a broad based business education, because if you think of business as a sport, law is the rules of that sport. So not only is it important to know how

00:16 - to conduct your business well and within the guidelines of the rules, but understanding law as a business leader gives you strategic advantages because you can spot issues, potential problems and avoid them if you know a little bit about the law as you're going along. And that applies from the time you start a business to your initial stages of forming it, to managing it, to really every stage of business leadership

00:46 - businesses benefit from a little fluency in law. Heroes and CEOs is a really unusual course, and I created it because I've been teaching at a business university at Bentley University for over a decade. And I saw that our students were learning important skills like law and management, but they were learning them in kind of a siloed way. And there was an opportunity, I thought, for our students to understand how each of the things that they're studying,

01:21 - each of the disciplines that they're studying could be brought together to provide a more effective education. So we have the building blocks in any university of all the skills that business leaders need, but how often do we actually give our students the opportunity to bring those together to solve problems, important problems while they're still undergraduates? It seems to me like we almost never do that. And so Heroes

01:49 - and CEOs is a course in which the students can learn from experts in 14 different fields instead of one, but in a really workable context that helps the students understand what's the practical value of each of these different fields that I'm studying and how might I be able to bring them together in my career. The course structure of Heroes and CEOs, is as unusual as its nature. We focus on complex problem solving. And so the way the course does that is in four parts.

02:26 - First, we, the students start with an introduction to what is complex problem solving, how do government and businesses work together, what are some of the problems we should solve? And we look at the UN sustainable development goals and we start out with a general sort of overview of problem solving to begin with. And then that's the, that's the first part. And then we move into, the second, third, and fourth parts which focus on discreet

02:56 - really difficult problems or wicked Problems as we call them. And anytime this course is run, those specific problems could change. For the first iteration of our course, I chose three problems that were, microplastics in the ocean was one of them. And then, climate justice, how do we not deal with climate change in a broad sense? But the question of, of equity

03:24 - and who's affected by climate change and then gender equity. So those are our three topics, our three wicked problems that we focused on For each of those problems, microplastics, climate justice, gender equity, I brought in experts from three different fields to talk to the students. And at the end of each of those sections at the end of the microplastics in the ocean section, for example, students wrote papers describing how those three different fields might work together

03:59 - to provide a complimentary and better creative solution to the problem than any one field alone. At the same time, the students who are throughout the course working on a problem of their own, a problem that mattered to them, I had chosen three problems. I wanted my students to feel invested as well. So I asked them to have their own independent throughline project

04:24 - that could be anything that they wanted. Some students chose fast fashion, some students chose, structural problems in their hometown. It just had to be something that the student really cared about. And so, for example, if I, if it might help to give an example of the, disciplines that work together. So in the microplastic section, for example, I had, I brought in someone from marketing who could talk about

04:56 - how products are, are marketed and how, why it's important to design sustainable packaging and what are the obstacles to doing that from a marketing perspective. I also brought in a biologist, a marine biologist, to talk about how plastics function in the ocean and how they affect wildlife. And then as our third discipline, I brought in somebody who is knowledgeable about environmental law, and we talked about how regulation might provide an

05:25 - important part of the answer. So the underlying concept of heroes and CEOs is that no single discipline has a monopoly on the value in complex problem solving. And to be a really effective problem solver, leaders need to be able to use disciplines together. Heroes and CEOs is a, is a, an exercise in doing just that. The minute you graduate with a degree, you are released from the structure

05:57 - Of English courses and government courses and history and marketing and finance and all the different disciplines that universities are built around. You just get released into the world with its complex problems and its lack of disciplinary labels. So in order to take on problems effectively, it's important to be able to think beyond those course labels, beyond those department names

06:22 - and to think about what are the partnerships, what are the synergies, what are the differences between how different experts tend to think of problems. A really effective leader, the most effective leaders will be able to understand how a broad range of disciplines could be brought together most effectively. So wicked problem solving courses are important because they provide training to take on the truly important work

06:50 - that business leaders need to do in the world, not just in leading their businesses, but in promoting social change and promoting local change and dealing with bigger problems in. And whether that's something that they do as part of their professional lives or whether that's something they do in their personal lives as part of the community, those are really important skills to have. So problem solving courses that bring together multiple disciplines

07:17 - provide an excellent training ground for what happens the minute after our students leave our campus. The impact of these courses has been tremendous. starting from the students' experience in the courses, my students first took Heroes and CEOs during the pandemic when it was really hard to get students excited about doing an online course. I have never had more enthusiastic students than we did during Heroes and CEOs because I think students are really hungry

07:48 - to make those connections and to meet more faculty. When I was bringing in a different faculty member every week to talk about a different discipline, that meant that my students were getting to, to form relationships with a broader range of faculty. They were getting introduced to fields of study they might never have encountered because they maybe didn't wanna invest a whole semester in a management class or in a sociology class. But here in this course, they got a little taster,

08:18 - a little sample of many different disciplines, but in the context of something that was gonna be really beneficial to them in the end. So for the students, they formed a tight community. They were enthusiastic about the skills they developed in the course. It felt useful to them in a way that students are really hungry for, and it gave them a way to act on their idealism. And I think it's really important as university faculty,

08:46 - that we do what we can to preserve the save the world ethos that so many of our students come into our, our Institutions with. And so often it's kind of dimmed by the time they're leaving. So courses like this help not only preserve, but make practical that idealism, you know, they help put that, those noble goals into practice. I think our students were excited about that. It was also beneficial for the faculty

09:15 - because I went into this course thinking, I'm gonna have to ask for favors from all of my colleagues to come in and teach this course. No one's gonna wanna do it. But without exception, all of the faculty members that I asked were excited to do it because they got to work across department lines with people that they really enjoyed meeting, but wouldn't necessarily meet in the, the silos or the sort of the rigid structures,

09:42 - the departmental meetings that we tend to have that keep us separate from each other. So it was a great, professional experience for the faculty as well. And we were all really proud that we were helping our students build these important skills in terms of what's gonna happen in the future for the students in the course. We're still seeing that. I've had some of the students from Heroes

10:05 - and CEOs first round decide that they wanted to apply to law school. I've had some students from that first round decide that they'd like to get more involved in local government. So these are great things and I think as the years go on and we repeat heroes and CEOs, we're gonna see a greater range of positive, outcomes as a result of courses like this. The conclusions from this work are that there should be more courses like Heroes and CEOs

10:34 - and there can be there, it, there is a, a structure in place that can be adjusted any number of ways. I've set up a course shell that has three problem solving components. There could be two, there could be four. I look forward to seeing how other people are using this kind of structure and running with it in other institutions. What disciplines you invite to the party totally depends on what disciplines you have at your institution

11:03 - and that you wanna highlight what problems you wanna solve. That depends in part on, again, who you wanna invite to the party, what disciplines you wanna include. But there's a tremendous range of flexibility. So as long as we can get past the administrative hassle of, you know, well, you're not gonna get credit for teaching this course and think instead about the overwhelming benefits to the student. If we run more multiple multidisciplinary, wicked problem solving courses like this,

11:34 - I think there's infinite potential to have many more interdisciplinary courses like this that are fun and beneficial. And who doesn't want that.

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